Knights & Knaves Alehouse

The MM states that when a magic-user loses control of a conjured elemental and that elemental turns on him, the elemental will "...return to its own plane in three turns after control is lost."

I'm wondering if that means three 10-min turns, or three "combat turns" (i.e., melee rounds). The elemental conjuration rules have their roots in Chainmail, and I'm kind of leaning towards 3 melee rounds, rather than 30 mins. What do you think?

Well, as you know, three turns in CM is an indeterminate number of mêlée rounds, so how about a compromise of 3d10 rounds?

Goodness, imagine it running amok for thirty minutes!
The one time I DMed the spell I (probably misread it and) played it as three rounds. In the middle of combat that was plenty disastrous.

I take that to mean just as it says: three turns.

Further, I interpret this mean that if the Elemental doesn't kill the conjurer within 3 turns, it will return to it's native plane. If it does before 3 turns have lapsed, it returns to it's native plane immediately.

3 combat rounds doesn't seem like a big enough risk (considering the MU is going to have some backup, PCs or hirelings at least). There has to be enough time for the elemental to squash all the fodder to get the prize. 3 turns is plenty to finish the job. In D&D terms 3 rounds goes fast.

francisca wrote:I take that to mean just as it says: three turns.

Agreed.

francisca wrote:Further, I interpret this mean that if the Elemental doesn't kill the conjurer within 3 turns, it will return to it's native plane. If it does before 3 turns have lapsed, it returns to it's native plane immediately.

Agreed, and if the elemental successfully kills it's conjurer, IMC it will usually (75%) carry off the dead body as well

Some additional elemental tidbits I'd forgotten about:
- the + weapon required to hit an elemental was only +1 in OD&D (and perhaps also in Chainmail?), not +2, and a remnant of that remains in the elemental's introductory text in the MM, which states than an ogre could hit an elemental---but, an ogre is only 4+1 HD, and to hit a +2 monster in AD&D monster must be 6+2 or greater HD (DMG p. 75)
- the control of elementals can be wrested from the conjurer with a successful dispel magic, and if the usurpation attempt fails, it makes the elemental max HP, and doubles the conjurer's chance of control, and makes the elemental preferentially target the usurping MU over other targets (all of this in the final paragraph on page 37 of MM).

Philotomy Jurament wrote:The MM states that when a magic-user loses control of a conjured elemental and that elemental turns on him, the elemental will "...return to its own plane in three turns after control is lost."

I'm wondering if that means three 10-min turns, or three "combat turns" (i.e., melee rounds). The elemental conjuration rules have their roots in Chainmail, and I'm kind of leaning towards 3 melee rounds, rather than 30 mins. What do you think?

I tend to assume 30 minutes for 3 turns

PH pg 79 says:" The elemental conjured up must be controlled by the magic-user, i.e. the spell caster must concentrate on the elemental doing his or her commands, or it
will turn on the magic-user and attack. The elemental, however, will not cease a combat to do so, but it will avoid creatures when seeking its conjurer. If the magic-user is wounded or grappled, his or her concentration is broken. There is always a 5% chance that the elemental will turn on its conjurer regardless of concentration, and this check is made at the end of the second and each succeeding round. The elemental can be controlled up to 3" distant per level of the spell caster. The elemental remains until its form on this plane is destroyed due to damage or the spell's duration expires.

N.B. Special protection from uncontrolled elementals is available by means of a pentacle, pentagram, thaumaturgic triangle, magic circle, or protection from evil spell."

which sounds a bit different, and makes it extremely likely they will turn on the caster (eventually). Note the last bit, one can take precautions...and probably should.

The chainmail reference in OD&D may or may not be important. 3 rounds isn't long.