Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Does the DMG mention how long it takes to get out of a suite of plate mail, chain, leather etc. to cover situations where you fall in deep water and risk drowning, or the heat metal spell?
This actually came up in a game this weekend, and had to wing it (I figured 1-3 rounds based a little on luck and if you panic) due to straps being hard to reach, hanging or snagging ect.

I dunno, but I'd rule that you can't get the heavier stuff off by yourself... chain and plate, I mean. There's a factor to consider.

The only precise rules I remember seeing about getting into or out of plate armors, assisted or otherwise and on a hurry or not are in the 2E Arms & Equipment Guide.

I recall that there was a module that covered the getting out of armor to not drown thing, but I can't recall which module. So, I thought just bringing it up might jog the memory of someone else.

Semaj Khan wrote:I dunno, but I'd rule that you can't get the heavier stuff off by yourself... chain and plate, I mean. There's a factor to consider.

That seems pretty severe to me for a game where your going to have to travel alone at times as a fighter or cleric (its a heroic game with one guy getting separated or being the sole survivor a good bit). I think the assumption is PCs and NPCs can take care of themselves when it comes to equipment...getting it on and off, fixing small dents, keeping it oiled etc. (regardless of RL). Plus, there's at least this precedents I suppose http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGm-zkRNj58 Yeah, its a movie...but D&D is a a game...so. Hell, IRL can a knight not get into and out of chain, banded, splinted, plate?

Matt or P&P, are you guys able to get into and out of your chain or plate armor by yourselves? Could you rig it so that you could perhaps (if so how long would it take to cut or remove the straps that holds it on? What would be the procedure say if you fell from a bridge over a river and were sinking down 20 feet?

TRP wrote:I recall that there was a module that covered the getting out of armor to not drown thing, but I can't recall which module. So, I thought just bringing it up might jog the memory of someone else.

B1 maybe (isn't that the module with a room that has its entire floor collapses dropping the party into deep pool of water and a random encounter on shore)?

Uther threw a humpin' to Igraine while in armor. Therefore, I can't imagine any reason requiring the stuff to be taken off.

- Wheggi

My players always cite that.

I never had problem taking plate or chain gear off by myself. The plate is probably not historical as it's convenience probably been "improved" by modern knowledge for use in a hobby sport.

There these basic issues.

1) Buckles and Ties
2) Layered garments
3) Shifting a heavy mass of material.

For the classic man in a can plate it is a matter of undoing various buckles and then doffing your quilted undergarment. Perhaps even a chain undergarment.

The biggest problem would be anything that is buckled in the back. That absolutely requires another person to get at.

Chain is a matter undoing ties and slipping of the various pieces similar to doffing clothes but only with a much heavier mass of metal. There will probably be some ties to undo. A big problem with chain that all the weight is only only a few parts of the body. For example a hauberk the weight is mostly on the shoulders. A good belt can help but plate is much better at distribute the weight.

Then there is your undergarment to get off which is probably is some form of quilt.

If you not panicking maybe you have a chance. And hopefully you invested some gold in a better fit and quality.

The traditional man in a can view of armor is largely a result of 16th century tournament armor. If you have to live in the stuff as an adventurer you are going to gravitate to gear that is maintainable. In addition to SCA I played several boffer LARPs where people were in character 24/7. Ones gear quickly got shredded to the point of where it was just "good enough" A full kit was just too tiring to wear over the course of the day.

As a reflection of my experience I hand wave this in my own game with the assumption that both sides wear the minimum "good enough" version.

Wheggi wrote: Uther threw a humpin' to Igraine while in armor. Therefore, I can't imagine any reason requiring the stuff to be taken off.

More to the point, Percival removes his armour in the same film when he ends up in the river.

Thanks Matt, thats exactly what I was looking for.

Gygax has this ruling:

Have no other recourse than to take a full turn to remove their armor…and then take a full turn to suit up (9 White Plume Mnt S2)

sepulchre wrote:Gygax has this ruling:

Have no other recourse than to take a full turn to remove their armor…and then take a full turn to suit up (9 White Plume Mnt S2)

Excellent find. I knew I remembered something about getting out of armor from one of the early modules.

I think there may be something on armor removal written by Gary in one of his modules, but the quotation from WPM isn't it, since S2 was written by Lawrence Schick.

Grodog wrote:

...since S2 was written by Lawrence Schick

Ooops, nice catch Gro.

Axe wrote:

Excellent find.

Thanks, Axe. Gro's right there is another ruling in one of the modules, maybe its Gygax, can't remember, but the ruling in S2 is the simplest and most comprehensive. I know I have the other one kicking around on a document somewhere, I will post it as well.