Knights & Knaves Alehouse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhRUe-gz690


So my sword of sharpness is cutting off arms, wings and what have you. But still the damage is simply 1d8 +1 (it acts as a plus 1 sword). Anyone know of anything that would increase damage over this BTB? The only advantage I can see is if you decapitate, cut off a sword arm or leg (so the thing can't follow you) our house rule is auto max damage, but otherwise the battle continues. Maybe something in the DMG about lost limbs (I could have sworn this came up before in another thread)?

Could've sworn I've seen a DEX loss for missing arm somewhere. Chagmat maybe? I'll take a peek around.

Edited for autocorrect annoyance.

I can't think of anything btb about bleeding out from a lost limb. It'd have to be house-ruled, and that's a different forum area.

Obviously, the fucker's no longer using a shield, nor is he wielding any 2-handed weapons. Forget casting spells.

There is direct correlation between hit point damage and mutilating damage of that sort. BtB one of PCs in my PbP lost an eye to a raven...for 1 HP worth of damage.

I would suggest in these suggestions logic and what we know about the real world takes precedence over mechanics. A poor sod who has just got an arm cut off is pretty much out of combat there and then. Even if he doesn't collapse due to shock immediately (CON check or Save vs. Death?) he will at the very least be crumpled in the ground grasping his stump and crying for mommy. As for death from blood loss, I dunno, a couple of rounds unless someone tourniquets his arse?

TRP wrote:Obviously, the fucker's no longer using a shield, nor is he wielding any 2-handed weapons. Forget casting spells.

BtB you can cast spells with only one arm. Only spells who have both Material and Somatic components require two. Obviously this assumes "lefty" is already healed, I don't see anyone spellslingling while they are bleeding messily from a severed limb.

Hit points and wounds are related, but they are not interchangeable. For example if a character loses fifty hit points and has his arm chopped off, the arm does not regrow when he regains those fifty lost hit points.

I would say that the permanent loss of a limb would be reason for a chance of permanent (but minor) hit point loss - say 1d6-3 hit points

I would say this is obviously one of Mythmere's Zen moments of old school D&D. It ain't about the rules, but the rulings. The DM (even in AD&D) must be willing to impose his judgment upon the situation at hand. Throw out the whole dang DMG if you have to. A character missing limbs is just plain out of the fight.

austinjimm wrote: A character missing limbs is just plain out of the fight.

I would still say a saving throw of some sort should apply to see if the shock can be fought off that round, and it would have to be rolled every round until it fails or the fight, and adrenaline, are over.

To a large extent, by logic, a leg fully severed above the knee in the middle of a melee should be fatal a lot of the time, too, if we start nodding too far towards realism. But given the abstractness of hit points, favor of the gods and all that, there should be a chance of superhuman grit and resolve to keep going one more minute before collapsing.

EOTB wrote:

austinjimm wrote: A character missing limbs is just plain out of the fight.

I would still say a saving throw of some sort should apply to see if the shock can be fought off that round, and it would have to be rolled every round until it fails or the fight, and adrenaline, are over.

To a large extent, by logic, a leg fully severed above the knee in the middle of a melee should be fatal a lot of the time, too, if we start nodding too far towards realism. But given the abstractness of hit points, favor of the gods and all that, there should be a chance of superhuman grit and resolve to keep going one more minute before collapsing.

Not saying a character impaired in such a way must just lay down and die, but at this point in the game you're restricted to whatever the ref says you can/can't do. If the ref wants to impose some sort of check on your action (save, whatever), then so be it, but the ref is well within his scope to make you a helpless pleading mass.

EDIT: Your chances will be much improved if you brought the DM cheese dip & beer!

austinjimm wrote:I would say this is obviously one of Mythmere's Zen moments of old school D&D. It ain't about the rules, but the rulings. The DM (even in AD&D) must be willing to impose his judgment upon the situation at hand. Throw out the whole dang DMG if you have to. A character missing limbs is just plain out of the fight.

Well, its a game, so I think its fair to say a monster at least could still fight with one arm (DMs call). Second, I think there are a good number of modern day examples of marines continuing to fight after having their arm basically blasted off in combat (hanging by skin or tendons), same goes with historical accounts of battles further back (what do you do if your conscious and someone trying to run you threw with a bayonet, you fight). Bottom line, unless you pass out from the pain, your likely going to fight until your blood pressure drops to the point you pass out (and animals have a way of minimizing blood loss to survive) imagine its a ghoul about to eat you alive.

Look at guys like Aron Ralston (who cut off his arm to free it from a boulder), these are average people doing extraordinary things. Consider a battle hardened experienced adventurer with 50 HPs (ie. not an average guy) who knows his arm can be regrown if he makes it out alive. I'd say chances are he could still fight. Sure he could pass out (and you could role a save vs. petrification each round or something to check, with some max amount of time in mind).

EOTB wrote:I would still say a saving throw of some sort should apply to see if the shock can be fought off that round, and it would have to be rolled every round until it fails or the fight, and adrenaline, are over.

Actually, I do something similar to this all the time. When something happens to a character that would usually cause automatic death, I allow a save v. death (either by round or by turn, according to circumstance), until the character either finds a way to save himself or succumbs. More often they succumb.

AxeMental wrote:First off, its a game, so I think its fair to say a monster at least could still fight with one arm. Second, I think there are a good number of modern day examples of marines continuing to fight after having their arm basically blasted off in combat (hanging by skin or tendons), same goes with historical accounts of battles further back (what do you do if your conscious and someone trying to run you threw with a bayonet, you fight). Bottom line, unless you pass out from the pain, your likely going to fight until your blood pressure drops to the point you pass out (and animals have a way of minimizing blood loss to survive) imagine its a ghoul about to eat you alive.

Look at guys like Aron Ralston (who cut off his arm to free it from a boulder), these are average people doing extraordinary things. Consider a battle hardened experienced adventurer with 50 HPs (ie. not an average guy) who knows his arm can be regrown if he makes it out alive. I'd say chances are he could still fight. Sure he could pass out (and you could role a save vs. petrification each round or something to check, with some max amount of time in mind).

Obviously a multi-limbed monster is not the same case as a character with an arm & leg missing.

To be honest, I've only had one instance (I can recall) in my game when a character had a body part severed. It was a 2nd level fighter reaching into a treasure chest. His hand was cut off by a scything blade. He took the treasure, fought his way out of the dungeon (with a -2 new lefty penalty), and eventually overcame the handicap (now wears a shield on the bad arm and has overcome the lefty penalty). He still comes to my games about every other month, and his character is now 7th level.

Love the trap (ouch), sounds like a pretty cool player as well.

In the game I played in last night my PC with sword of sharpness cut off the head of a mummy. The DM was a bit befuddled for a moment (what happens when you behead something already dead), and then went with the corny Mummy Movie solution (of course the mummy head directed its body to attack watching from the corner it had rolled into...by chance it could still see its body (the bastard got a few swings at us until we figured it out and pushed the head it to face another direction, making it effectively blind and easily destroyed). Good stuff...

Probably a system shock roll (or maybe a save) to see whether he goes into shock for a while. If he doesn't get appropriate aid (maybe a tourniquet, cure spell, or similar) within a number of minutes, he passes out and dies from blood loss. Aid could even be self-administered, if he's not in shock. Depending on the nature of the injury (and possibly the/another system shock check or save), it may also be reasonable to apply the usual requirements for being reduced to zero or fewer hp: Unable to do anything beyond move around slowly, until he's had a week of bed rest. (And a heal spell can obviate the need for such rest, as usual.)

Long term, a penalty to dexterity and/or strength might be appropriate. Maybe a permanent hp reduction, but I'd lean away from that due to the nature of hp.

As Guy above said. In my game anyone who loses a limb must make a system shock roll or be unable to do anything until some healing is applied.

Cheers!

MJW