Summon Insects vs. Vampire

[northrundicandus]

I'd just rule the all those insects get drained 2 levels and die when they touch the Vampire.

[TRP]

Wish I'da thought of that. What an awesome image. All these insects just dropping ... like flies.

[AxeMental]

I'd just rule the all those insects get drained 2 levels and die when they touch the Vampire.

Yep, thats the correct call. Thats what happens to bozo the monk igoes for the open hand attack, so ditto the bug bite.

[AxeMental]

I'd just rule the all those insects get drained 2 levels and die when they touch the Vampire.

Thats what happens to bozo the monk wehn he goes for the open hand attack, so ditto the bug bite.
good call.

[genghisdon]

I used to rule that way, but it simply compounds the idiocy of vampires energy draining via touch. Good ruling for spectres & the like however.

[AxeMental]

I used to rule that way, but it simply compounds the idiocy of vampires energy draining via touch. Good ruling for spectres & the like however.

OK does it say anyplace that if you simply touch a vampire your energy drained? Or is this some sort of extrapolation from another undead or something in the DMG? It could be a hit by the vampire is needed for an energy drain. Likewise with other monsters that energy drain.

My impression has always been that the monk should be able to kick a freaking vampire, barefoot if he likes. And every other type of undead that could be hit with a sword. But I was always overruled on this by my DM.

[genghisdon]

actually it IS implied
"Important: Monks' stunning/killing ability can only apply to living things. Undead cannot be affected (and an open hand hit on an undead creature could be very undesirable from the monk's standpoint in any event - especially if the creature causes damage by touch, for the monk touching the undead creature then is the same as the reverse). Golems and dopplegangers cannot be affected. Damage from open hand attacks still accrues if the monster can be so hit otherwise" DMG pg 71, bold mine

I'm just saying VAMPIRES are silly with energy draining touch. I can live with it via a bite for d6+4 HP & 2 levels, although it's still kinda clunky to me.

The above ruling/musing would be reversed (in harsh terms) in a later edtion, BTW.

[vargr1105]

My impression has always been that the monk should be able to kick a freaking vampire, barefoot if he likes.

Considering Wuxia movies are chock-full of monks beating the living daylights out of Chinese vampires with their bare hands I would have to agree.

[AxeMental]

My impression has always been that the monk should be able to kick a freaking vampire, barefoot if he likes.

Considering Wuxia movies are chock-full of monks beating the living daylights out of Chinese vampires with their bare hands I would have to agree.

I was going to put on the Hammer Chinese Vampire movie (golden vampires or something like that) and give it a watch and see what happens.

I PMed SKA about this, his opinion was that energy drain is an attack. The monk is attacking not the vampire. You could argue that the above quote from the open hand description is possible if both attack simultaneously (which is not uncommon in battle).

[genghisdon]

or just accept/rule a vampire's TOUCH isn't deadly the way several other undead types are.

Monks are fucked for the Wuxia style vampire beatdowns in 1e; open hand attacks are neither silver nor magical weapons. This need not stand, however, as a dragon remake, UA type magic items like slippers of kicking wearing, or later edition monk CAN strike like a magic weapon.

[AxeMental]

or just accept/rule a vampire's TOUCH isn't deadly the way several other undead types are.

Monks are fucked for the Wuxia style vampire beatdowns in 1e; open hand attacks are neither silver nor magical weapons. This need not stand, however, as a dragon remake, UA type magic items like slippers of kicking wearing, or later edition monk CAN strike like a magic weapon.

Yeah, thats the thing, you need a plus weapon. Maybe +2 socks.