Its a tricky thing to know as DM how cunning to make monsters (in general). Lets take goblins for instance. There are a fare number of examples from kids books and movies ranging from cunning to pretty stupid. In general I try to keep them challenging, but worry about making them seem out of character (preset ambushes and responding to known or expected threats, for instance a sleep spell, or oil attack). On one hand you want the races with low intel to come off that way, but on the other hand, you don't have to have high intel to be a threat. I often consider leadership and ranks important (so if the leader is taken out the quality of response to PCs in a dungeon say, might falter). Anyhow, curious how you handle this topic, and if you vary "cunningness" organization and "falling for tricks" etc. depending on the level of players, and a particular dungeon. Or do you play them consistently across the board. I realize the monster descriptions sometimes mentions cleverness.
PS I suppose its true that humans vary a great deal in how clever they can be and cautious. I wonder if that same range is applicable to monsters (or if for sake of consistency and "monster personality" they should be more constant).
How cunning do you make your monsters?
How cunning do you make your monsters?
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
Thomas Jefferson in letter to Madison
Back in the days when a leopard could grab and break your Australopithecus (gracile or robust) nek and drag you into the tree as a snack, mankind has never had a break"
** Stone Giant
Thomas Jefferson in letter to Madison
Back in the days when a leopard could grab and break your Australopithecus (gracile or robust) nek and drag you into the tree as a snack, mankind has never had a break"
** Stone Giant
Re: How cunning do you make your monsters?
I assume that all monsters above the non-intelligent level are many times more clever than I, so they're always played as clever as I can imagine.
There's a line I like from The Heist, when Devito asks Hackman how he pulls off his thefts, Hackman replies "I imagine what a smarter man than myself would do." That's a paraphrase, but it's close. I do that as both DM and player.
There's a line I like from The Heist, when Devito asks Hackman how he pulls off his thefts, Hackman replies "I imagine what a smarter man than myself would do." That's a paraphrase, but it's close. I do that as both DM and player.
"The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek." - Joseph Campbell
- Benoist
- Le Vrai Grognard
- Posts: 2852
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:48 pm
- Location: The Hobby Shop Dungeon
- Contact:
Re: How cunning do you make your monsters?
Depends on the monster type. I try to actually role play the monsters appropriately, including their behavior in battle, i.e. they employ tactics relevant to their nature. Kobolds will be cowardly and try to amass numbers to overcome foes. Orcs will be eager for battle, use basic tactics but are not very bright. Hobgoblins are much more organized and disciplined. Animals think like animals. Magical beasts may be exceptionally cunning, depending on particular cases. Etc.
Founder with Ernest Gygax, GP Adventures LLC
The Hobby Shop Dungeon Facebook page.
The Hobby Shop Dungeon Facebook page.
Re: How cunning do you make your monsters?
I generally try to play intelligent monsters pretty cleverly, especially if they're found in their lair. If there's a way to sneak around and attack the party from the back or take advantage of terrain, they do it. I also generally assume that at least one of the monsters have tangled with a Party of Adventurers before or heard stories about them and, as a result, that the monster group has some idea of what they're up against. They attack the caster early if possible, for example. They also don't stupidly fight to the death, but sometimes haul ass and go get help if possible. They also use tactics appropriate to their abilities. I find that all of those things make the game harder for the players, but ultimately more enjoyable for them as well.
Davy Brown, Davy Brown
Where ya gonna be when the hammer comes down?
Can you outshoot the Devil? Outrun his hounds?
Ain't nothing to it but to stay above ground.
Where ya gonna be when the hammer comes down?
Can you outshoot the Devil? Outrun his hounds?
Ain't nothing to it but to stay above ground.
- Matthew
- Master of the Silver Blade
- Posts: 8049
- Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:42 pm
- Location: Kanagawa, Japan
- Contact:
Re: How cunning do you make your monsters?
Reasonably cunning. There is definitely a range of intelligence, just like with humans. If they are organised, led, and have a purpose then they will most likely be played to the limit of my ability.
[i]It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.[/i]
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa[/i] (1340)
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa[/i] (1340)
- thedungeondelver
- Intergalactic demander
- Posts: 9798
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:40 am
- Location: ameriʞa
Re: How cunning do you make your monsters?
In B2, Gary admonishes DMs to have surviving monsters learn from their experiences: if the party is using poison or flaming oil, so should the monsters!
Thus each expedition to Castle Delve turns up a new set of challenges. The lowly Kobolds there have proven quite troublesome to the adventurers: driving waves of giant rats in front of them, flaming oil, etc.
Thus each expedition to Castle Delve turns up a new set of challenges. The lowly Kobolds there have proven quite troublesome to the adventurers: driving waves of giant rats in front of them, flaming oil, etc.
- Matthew
- Master of the Silver Blade
- Posts: 8049
- Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:42 pm
- Location: Kanagawa, Japan
- Contact:
Re: How cunning do you make your monsters?
B2 is chock full of good advice for the game master.
[i]It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.[/i]
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa[/i] (1340)
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa[/i] (1340)
Re: How cunning do you make your monsters?
I generally play the monsters true to type. Taking into account culture, alignment, HD, capabilities and Intelligence.
I use the Intel ratings as a check to see if they come up with anything innovative. iie roll d20 and get under the intel rating. Chaotic cratures will not work together well. Lawful ones will. Animals will cut and run. Humanoids will be more likely to fight to the death. Kobolds will be sneaky. Orcs will do a frontal assault. Hobgoblins will have more solid tactics.
I use the Intel ratings as a check to see if they come up with anything innovative. iie roll d20 and get under the intel rating. Chaotic cratures will not work together well. Lawful ones will. Animals will cut and run. Humanoids will be more likely to fight to the death. Kobolds will be sneaky. Orcs will do a frontal assault. Hobgoblins will have more solid tactics.
I was there in the beginning and I will be there in the end.
"Got any dragons you need slain?"--- 'Scar' Gordon
"Got any dragons you need slain?"--- 'Scar' Gordon
- Finarvyn
- Veteran Member
- Posts: 345
- Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:45 pm
- Location: Chicago Suburbs
- Contact:
Re: How cunning do you make your monsters?
Historically, I've let monsters be pretty stupid. It makes the players feel superior.
On the other hand, recently they have encountered some smart monsters and it's starting to creep them out. The monsters always seem to be a step ahead of them, having spellcasters and planning ambushes and such. It's making my players have to think a little harder.
On the other hand, recently they have encountered some smart monsters and it's starting to creep them out. The monsters always seem to be a step ahead of them, having spellcasters and planning ambushes and such. It's making my players have to think a little harder.
Marv / Finarvyn
OD&D Player since 1975; I'm mostly responsible for S&W WhiteBox
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
OD&D Player since 1975; I'm mostly responsible for S&W WhiteBox
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
Re: How cunning do you make your monsters?
Green Beret Skeletons! Hat and everything.
If encounters were balanced, half the party would die every fight.
