Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Listed as 2-8/1-12. Is that bite/tail swipe, tail swipe/bite? Assuming there is no claw here. Any idea?

The bite has to be the larger of the two, in my mind.

I'm surprised the entry is as sparse as it is. I think there should be a rule for the way crocs grab something in water, drag it under, and roll with it until it drowns. Sort of a modified "bearhug" rule.

EOTB wrote:The bite has to be the larger of the two, in my mind.

Works for me.

I'm surprised the entry is as sparse as it is. I think there should be a rule for the way crocs grab something in water, drag it under, and roll with it until it drowns. Sort of a modified "bearhug" rule.

I thought it was a little sparse as well. On a successful hit, you could roll for a latch and then a possible move to death roll. Good idea.

Chainsaw wrote:Listed as 2-8/1-12. Is that bite/tail swipe, tail swipe/bite? Assuming there is no claw here. Any idea?

I looked in other rule books (Moldvay, Mentzer, & OSRIC) and found nothing. Basic D&D games stick to the one damage (assuming bite) but the damages match nothing in AD&D. I did find an answer in 2e though. A normal crocodile has a bite that does 2d4 damage. They have a tail attack for 1d12 damage.

EOTB wrote:I'm surprised the entry is as sparse as it is. I think there should be a rule for the way crocs grab something in water, drag it under, and roll with it until it drowns. Sort of a modified "bearhug" rule.

As I found this in the 2e monster manual, that edition does explain alot about how it attacks by doing what you are describing. In my 1e games, I stick to the simple bite/swipe stuff and don't focus on the National Geographic accuracy of the beast.

Also...since I often have to throw in some type of joke...


That's a Knoif! (Australian for dagger)

Hey, thanks Wizardawn. I would have never found that.

I might still add the latch and roll, not because it's accurate, but because we might have fun with it.

In OD&D a normal croc has 1 attack: a bite for 3-12. Giant crocs (in Supplement II) have a bite for 4-24 (+ seizing &/or limb-severing on attack roll 19+!) and tail swipe for 3-12. The damage values in the MM are different from any of these, but seem to line up with the first/smaller value (2-8 for normal, 3-18 for giant) being the tail and the second/larger (1-12 for normal, 2-20 for giant) being the bite. Sadly, the vorpal attack didn't make the cut for AD&D. I'm also dubious that getting smacked by a crocodile tail is something that would be more damaging on average than getting stabbed by a longsword or cleft by a battle axe, and am strongly tempted to revert those to the OD&D values - no tail-swipe attack for normal crocs (or perhaps an overbearing attack, but no damage), 3-12 for giant crocs (which are, after all, 30'+ long).

The 2E entry which makes the tail swipe more deadly than the bite is obviously stupid.

Extremely helpful.

T. Foster wrote:Sadly, the vorpal attack didn't make the cut for AD&D.

Oh, it's making the "cut" for my AD&D game.

CapitalBill...please remember to bring the Crocodile repellant tomorrow...I think we may need it.......

That's silly, Fridge... this was just a totally random question, unrelated to our game.

Do crocodiles even use their tails to attack in reality?

Not that I've ever heard of.

The assorted Steve Irwin/Croc Hunter Animal Planet shows do show footage of crocs using their tail a lot... mainly to knock down annoying humans who are trying to capture them (or to sweep something into the water where it is easier prey).

Very rarely is someone actually injured by the tail... mainly sprains, twisted ankles, etc. If someone's foot is stuck in mud when the tail hits they might get a broken leg... or break an arm falling... but the tail rarely actually causes damage directly.

Interesting. Maybe I'll use the vorpal chomp (19+) and tail swipe, but the tail swipe will be minimal damage, maybe 1-2 pts, and knock the opponent prone, which would then give the creature all the prone bonuses on his next attack (assuming the PC has not gotten up first) and a better chance of vorpal (natural 17+).

Don't worry fridge, this is all hypothetical.

What about the death roll, when they pull you under and try to drown you?