Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Whatever..hand or claw at 3-24 they'd sure ruin your morning constitution.

Inferiority complex on one side, persecution complex on the other? If there ever was any real antipathy or factionalism it was back in the day when these were actually competing game systems. You might still get some extremists on either side who believe one system is absolutely superior to the other, but the vast majority see virtues and flaws in both. For instance, I prefer the B/X attribute charts, but the AD&D alignment charts, and I think both could benefit from tweaks to their attack and experience tables.

No animosity here. I love AD&D, hence this is pretty much the only forum I frequent these days. Yet I run a B/X clone game. Whoopty Do. At this time, it fits my players better. I fail to understand any of the factionalism and hate in comparing pre 2E incarnations of D&D. The differences never seemed that great to me. I'll happily play in any of the pre-2E incarnations.

AxeMental wrote:Whatever..hand or claw at 3-24 they'd sure ruin your morning constitution.

My halfling thief ended up on the wrong side of a xorn claw/hand/whatever in Grodog's game at NTRPGCon and I was like "damn that's a lot of damage!"

P.S. no xorn in B/X

T. Foster wrote:My halfling thief ended up on the wrong side of a xorn claw/hand/whatever in Grodog's game at NTRPGCon and I was like "damn that's a lot of damage!"

Luckily Chainsaw the Cleric was ready with some healing, haha. My shining moment in that game.

quatzl wrote:No animosity here. I love AD&D, hence this is pretty much the only forum I frequent these days. Yet I run a B/X clone game. Whoopty Do. At this time, it fits my players better. I fail to understand any of the factionalism and hate in comparing pre 2E incarnations of D&D. The differences never seemed that great to me. I'll happily play in any of the pre-2E incarnations.

Ditto. You have to dig threw places like DF and ENworld and a few others to get the vibe. Like I said, the guys here that post here regularly and play B/X seem to be very cool with 1E.

T. Foster wrote:

AxeMental wrote:Whatever..hand or claw at 3-24 they'd sure ruin your morning constitution.

My halfling thief ended up on the wrong side of a xorn claw/hand/whatever in Grodog's game at NTRPGCon and I was like "damn that's a lot of damage!"

P.S. no xorn in B/X

Foster, what level was that halfling? And I'm assuming a pure thief? Somehow I picture you playing a hobbit well.

AxeMental wrote:Foster, what level was that halfling? And I'm assuming a pure thief? Somehow I picture you playing a hobbit well.

It was a pre-gen character created by grodog. IIRC he was actually a fighter/thief, and I think he was either 4/8 or 4/9. Between that xorn attack and falling into a "disappearing" pit I think I suffered more than anyone else in our 12-member party (at least until the final encounter when I was one of the only ones to avoid getting breathed on by the three-headed ooze dragon ).

ETA: an yeah, hobbits are awesome. One of my favorite character types (and I was totally bummed when no one chose the hobbit pre-gen in my game at last year's SoCal Minicon -- and it was their loss because he had a luck blade with 3 wishes that I bet they could've used )

When I got my first books back in Christmas of '81 I really didn't know what to ask for. So I asked for PHB, DMG, MM and the basic and expert set. I was a comic collector and I figured I needed those for completion. Imagine my surprise when I got them and figured out they were not the same game really--or at least the rules were different.

My point is that since my gaming buddies were all playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. Why play "Basic" when you could play "Advanced" -- in retrospect of course I realize how naive and silly that idea was. i mean, heck, the name "Expert" set should have made that clear. But I wonder if many of us didn't feel the same way initially. They really never should have called the game "basic" it is as kewl and nuanced in its way as AD&D is.

My interests have always laid with the hardback game; but I'll admit when I gave the Retro Clone Dark Dungeons a perusal I was awesomely intrigued. Those B/X guys got some game going on.

Axe Mental wrote:(back then it was a badge of honor to master the DMG, it meant you were smarter then everyone else, and definitely better then the guys playing "kiddie D&D)

... among the kiddies, that is. Actual grownups don't worry about that.

because we could just pick you up and use your little head to brush primer on our figurines.

LOL and is it not easier to just spray on the primer??? lol

T. Foster wrote:ETA: an yeah, hobbits are awesome. One of my favorite character types (and I was totally bummed when no one chose the hobbit pre-gen in my game at last year's SoCal Minicon -- and it was their loss because he had a luck blade with 3 wishes that I bet they could've used )

Yeah, real men play hobbits!

I'm a long time B/X fan and I have not seen any animosity to AD&D. I like AD&D, too. Currently, I am running a LL:OEC face to face game for some people who've never gamed at all.

Where are you all seeing this anti-AD&D stuff from we B/X fans?

Oh, and I'm 6-even.

Ok since this is a height issue I figured I had to step in here *squeezes his way through the door*. I love AD&D I also love B/X (Moldvay), there is a vibe from the B/X'ers that AD&D is to complicated and that their version of D&D is better because its simpler, this same view was also expressed by the OD&D crowd when it was a big fad to rebirth in this version (I also love this version), often this vibe was not said outright but rather implied by the tone of the conversation. On the otherhand the AD&D crowd has been famous for the "Kiddie D&D" comments, which it is true that B/X was created to pull in a younger audience, it was where I started. However I still love and play this version of the game whether its the kids version or not, lets face it allot of things we here enjoy where created with kids in mind yet we still enjoy them as adults (comics, video games, etc.) so I find no shame in playing the "kiddie version" of the game, I also enjoy playing AD&D just as much.

I am a great lover of playing halflings myself!

for the record I am 6'7" tall and count ceiling fans amongst my mortal enemies.

Dwayanu wrote:

Axe Mental wrote:(back then it was a badge of honor to master the DMG, it meant you were smarter then everyone else, and definitely better then the guys playing "kiddie D&D)

... among the kiddies, that is. Actual grownups don't worry about that.

We adults were playing using the DMG, and yes, I was already an adult when the DMG was released. Except for the TSR old guard, I reckon there are damned few old school forum hounds older than me. I started with AD&D*. Why? Well, because the D&D players that introduced me to AD&D realized it was the logical step UP from D&D. Not that D&D doesn't have a certain quaint appeal, but for real gamers, AD&D was the logical progression.

Comes a time in everyone's life when it's time to put childish games behind.


* Alright, technically I started with the Holmes' edited edition, but that lasted only a couple or so weeks. It was obvious that AD&D was the real challenge for a player.