Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Hi Vigilance,
Since P&P is seldom around after getting promoted at his job, I'll try to answer your questions even though some have already been answered accurately.

Keep in mind that MoM was written/compiled around 2006-2007. Most of the monsters actually predate OSRIC itself. The original plan was to create some DF-type free resources for K&KA. A couple of things turned that plan aside. For one thing, DF already does free 1e resources about as well as they can be done, and anything we did here at K&KA would have been a redundant effort. Secondly, as OSRIC was starting to come on line, the MoM effort began to dovetail with the idea of a 1e publishers' platform (OSRIC).

As that dovetailing started to happen (both projects still in the working phase), MoM started to get seen as an example of what could be done with OSRIC in order to create a gaming-table product. It was never seen as a publisher's tool.

At that time, we had no idea that OSRIC would become such a big deal. Also, many of the contributors to MoM weren't involved in OSRIC at any level, and were only interested in creating a cool product for the game table.

Viewed in retrospect, it seems odd that MoM would be designed strictly for use at a gaming table and not for use by publishers. But if you look at it from when it was actually compiled, and how many people contributed, and that many of these people had nothing to do with OSRIC, I think MoM will make a lot more sense. It's not a post-OSRIC product with backward-looking tendencies, it's a pre-OSRIC product with forward-looking tendencies.

There are too many contributors to MoM to unwind the way in which the OGC was managed, so it is pretty much frozen in time as it is. However, as has been pointed out, each contributor can individually grant permission for use of his copyright monster descriptions.

Mythmere wrote: Viewed in retrospect, it seems odd that MoM would be designed strictly for use at a gaming table and not for use by publishers. But if you look at it from when it was actually compiled, and how many people contributed, and that many of these people had nothing to do with OSRIC, I think MoM will make a lot more sense. It's not a post-OSRIC product with backward-looking tendencies, it's a pre-OSRIC product with forward-looking tendencies.

That makes a lot of sense Myth, thanks!

I did in fact think that OSRIC came first, because I wasn't aware of MoM until quite recently.

Mythmere wrote:Keep in mind that MoM was written/compiled around 2006-2007.

MoM development occurred from 2005 - 2006.

OSRIC was released, IIRC, in August of '06. Most of MoM's material was in place by this time, but there was still a lot of work left to do on it.

Most of the submissions for MoM were in by around May of '06, and at that time, P&P was heavy into the editing portion of the project. Submissions continued to trickle in for a few months after that, it was after May that most of the art started rolling in and there were also the tables to create. MoM was released in either 12/06 or 01/07.

Mythmere wrote:Viewed in retrospect, it seems odd that MoM would be designed strictly for use at a gaming table and not for use by publishers.

With all these products for publishers and not for the gaming table, does anyone actually use any of these new gaming products at the gaming table? When did we all become publishers instead of players?

Stormcrow wrote:

Mythmere wrote:Viewed in retrospect, it seems odd that MoM would be designed strictly for use at a gaming table and not for use by publishers.

With all these products for publishers and not for the gaming table, does anyone actually use any of these new gaming products at the gaming table? When did we all become publishers instead of players?

Well, I'm both, but YMMV from person to person.

Personally, I feel that if we don't put out quality 1e material then someone else, probably far less qualified, will.

Stormcrow wrote:

Mythmere wrote:Viewed in retrospect, it seems odd that MoM would be designed strictly for use at a gaming table and not for use by publishers.

With all these products for publishers and not for the gaming table, does anyone actually use any of these new gaming products at the gaming table? When did we all become publishers instead of players?

They aren't mutually exclusive. And if you make something cool, why not share it?

I've really never understood people being hostile (not saying you, Stormcrow, just a general thing) to the way self-written gaming materials are circulating around the net right now. People write stuff. They put it up on lulu or wherever. Other people buy it, and the guy who wrote it ends up with a buck or two in profit. It's no different than people wandering around at a con with photocopies of some adventures they wrote. But to hear the critics, people who write up their adventures are greedy, the adventures are by definition poor, and blah, blah, blah.

Nobody seems to see the fact that the "publisher" is just a gamer who likes to write stuff for other people, and connects up with an artist to draw illustrations, and then puts the module out there for other people to buy or ignore. You'd think it was the end of the world for some people, though.

Mythmere wrote:

Stormcrow wrote:

Mythmere wrote:Viewed in retrospect, it seems odd that MoM would be designed strictly for use at a gaming table and not for use by publishers.

With all these products for publishers and not for the gaming table, does anyone actually use any of these new gaming products at the gaming table? When did we all become publishers instead of players?

They aren't mutually exclusive. And if you make something cool, why not share it?

I've really never understood people being hostile (not saying you, Stormcrow, just a general thing) to the way self-written gaming materials are circulating around the net right now. People write stuff. They put it up on lulu or wherever. Other people buy it, and the guy who wrote it ends up with a buck or two in profit. It's no different than people wandering around at a con with photocopies of some adventures they wrote. But to hear the critics, people who write up their adventures are greedy, the adventures are by definition poor, and blah, blah, blah.

Nobody seems to see the fact that the "publisher" is just a gamer who likes to write stuff for other people, and connects up with an artist to draw illustrations, and then puts the module out there for other people to buy or ignore. You'd think it was the end of the world for some people, though.

Just the sort of self-serving, propaganda BS I'd expect from you.

Speaking of, when you go to the FES Lulu page Monsters of Myth isn't available in hardcover anymore along with the various formats of OSRIC being missing. (I have had a hardcover of MoM at home for some time, but I'd like to point out that the option appears to have disappeared.)

(...and while you're there, if you could get the hardcover OSRIC back up there, it'd be much appreciated )

Stormcrow wrote:

Mythmere wrote:Viewed in retrospect, it seems odd that MoM would be designed strictly for use at a gaming table and not for use by publishers.

With all these products for publishers and not for the gaming table, does anyone actually use any of these new gaming products at the gaming table? When did we all become publishers instead of players?

The more quality modules published in the early TSR style (or anything as good) the better. I think most of the writers/artists that "get it" eventually get identifide threw word of mouth. EXPR has been a great "filter" for identifying these people. Its also helpful to find people that have your taste and read their reviews.

The "big players" in the FRPG "old school" publishing world for retro's have (for the most part) sucked. The small guys are the only thing going thats any good.

Stormcrow wrote:

Mythmere wrote:Viewed in retrospect, it seems odd that MoM would be designed strictly for use at a gaming table and not for use by publishers.

With all these products for publishers and not for the gaming table, does anyone actually use any of these new gaming products at the gaming table? When did we all become publishers instead of players?

I guess I'll take the opposite side of this.

Everyone who wants to should publish in PDF form.

The barrier to entry is just about zero, even if you want to SELL your products. If you just want to put up free PDFs, the barrier of entry is totally zero.

Open Office is free and offers both word processing and a save to PDF feature. You can also do a primitive layout there.

RPGNow has a sign on fee of $60, but if you don't want to use that site, then you can post materials all over the place for free, such as Archive.org.

So you write a great module for your players that they talk about long after its done.

Put it out!

More supplements generally, but adventures specifically, are the life blood of any game.

I would much rather read a review of something new for OSRIC than yet another review of a module written 30 years ago.

My comment was only meant tongue-in-cheek, but now I wonder: how many of you have actually used Monsters of Myth in a game? You don't count if you wrote or playtested a monster.

Stormcrow wrote:My comment was only meant tongue-in-cheek, but now I wonder: how many of you have actually used Monsters of Myth in a game? You don't count if you wrote or playtested a monster.

I have.

Stormcrow wrote:My comment was only meant tongue-in-cheek, but now I wonder: how many of you have actually used Monsters of Myth in a game? You don't count if you wrote or playtested a monster.

I included a variant based on Wheggi's Deceived of Set in my Castle Greyhawk dungeon event at North TX RPG Con (unfortunately, the PCs never reached that portion of the level), and I've already slotted some into my revamp of S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth as well, which I'll be DMing for our Wichita crew sometime in the semi-near-ish future.

I've placed some MoM creatures (that I didn't contribute) in assorted dungeon & wilderness locales I've designed, but none of them have actually been used in play yet. In the last campaign I played in, the DM (not a K&K member) threw an MoM creature at us -- wheggi and I both instantly recognized the illustration but didn't have any idea what the monster (Matt's Ishabti) actually did!

My players have encountered one monster from MoM. It is definitely part of my consideration when preparing an area.