Knights & Knaves Alehouse

While I'm not entirely sure of everything I said last night, I think this is a marketing strategy decision, not an IP decision. And I think the effect on the OS community by removing the OD&D pdfs from circulation is probably something they never even bothered to think about.

That said, the reason I'm worked up about it is because of those OD&D pdfs. Interest in OD&D was on the rise in the mainstream, and this cuts off that trend for everyone except those who have seen discussions of the retro-clones and know the brand-name "code" that S&W = 0e and OSRIC = 1e. I don't think this hurts 1e much except in the longer haul, but it's a speed bump for 0e.

Yeah, it will help the retro-clones relative to 0e, but the point has never been to gain market share versus 0e, it has been to increase publishing and introduce NEW gamers to the fold. So it sucks.

Mythmere wrote:While I'm not entirely sure of everything I said last night

Boy have I been there before!

No matter who were the "good guys" and "bad guys" in this case its still shitty and if their name is on it currently then they automatically own a big fat face full of shit. If I were in charge of WOTC, you know I'd own it. If I didn't do justice to the game (Aside from the obvious "republishing fantasies", and shipping all their current D&D products to the husbandry markets to be ground up for gerbil bedding!) then I'd expect a public flogging regardless of excuses.

Whoever is at "fault" here, this is just fucking stupid. The scans are done, and it's just gravy, even if just a little, for WotC to sell pdfs of the OOP stuff. In this economic climate, you'd think they would be scratching for every dime they could.

Am I the only one who's thinking of Fahrenheit 451 right now?
I wonder what the melting-point is for PDF's?
Quick! Everyone commit to memory all the AD&D material!!!

ThirstyStirge wrote:Quick! Everyone commit to memory all the AD&D material!!!

You mean you haven't done that already?

Honestly? You know if it hasn't been in my brain for over 25 years then it really ain't making it to the table... the books are only for logjams with magic.

Flambeaux wrote:

ThirstyStirge wrote:Quick! Everyone commit to memory all the AD&D material!!!

You mean you haven't done that already?

Show me one (1) guy who's completely memorised the DMG and I will buy that bloke a beer!

This raises a good question: I wonder what percentage of RPGers truly have a perfect recall (photographic memory) and put it to use with the core books...

Give 'em a call, let WotC know how you feel! Please, though ... be courteous and state your objections in a calm and dignified manner.

We're also available by telephone Monday through Friday, from 9 am to 6 pm Pacific Time, and also on weekends from 10 am to 4 pm Pacific Time:

US/Canada: (800) 324-6496
Other countries: (425) 204-8069

DuBeers wrote:Give 'em a call, let WotC know how you feel! Please, though ... be courteous and state your objections in a calm and dignified manner.

We're also available by telephone Monday through Friday, from 9 am to 6 pm Pacific Time, and also on weekends from 10 am to 4 pm Pacific Time:

US/Canada: (800) 324-6496
Other countries: (425) 204-8069

Yes, I suppose that might have been another option ...

Mythmere wrote:Yes, I suppose that might have been another option ...

I know you meant that in jest but just so everybody knows ... I'm casting no stones. I just know from working years ago as a "phone answerer" for a service company how shook up some folks can get, and the powerless flunky answering the 'phones can do nothing about it except listen politely.

DuBeers wrote:

Mythmere wrote:Yes, I suppose that might have been another option ...

I know you meant that in jest but just so everybody knows ... I'm casting no stones. I just know from working years ago as a "phone answerer" for a service company how shook up some folks can get, and the powerless flunky answering the 'phones can do nothing about it except listen politely.

Actually, what I meant was the not-sober rant on the net. Definitely when calling a company it's important to be polite. Those people basically just tally down the comments, and it's silly to be rude to them.

ThirstyStirge wrote:Show me one (1) guy who's completely memorised the DMG and I will buy that bloke a beer!

This raises a good question: I wonder what percentage of RPGers truly have a perfect recall (photographic memory) and put it to use with the core books...

I don't by any means have all the words memorized, but as far as what sections of the rules and what illustrations and tables are on what part of each page, in what order, I'm pretty close. I can't tell you what exactly is on, say, page 96, but if you ask me where any particular rule (or illustration, or table) is, I can probably tell you what part of the page (lefthand or righthand side, 1st or 2nd column, top middle or bottom of the column), and what part of the book (a few pages before the combat tables, a few pages after the sample dungeon map, right before the start of the magic item tables, etc.)

Mythmere wrote:Actually, what I meant was the not-sober rant on the net. Definitely when calling a company it's important to be polite. Those people basically just tally down the comments, and it's silly to be rude to them.

Dude, are you kidding? That was better than television for a bit of entertainment! Besides, most of us had similar feelings.

I'm the same way. Ask Mythmere.

T. Foster wrote: I don't by any means have all the words memorized, but as far as what sections of the rules and what illustrations and tables are on what part of each page, in what order, I'm pretty close. I can't tell you what exactly is on, say, page 96, but if you ask me where any particular rule (or illustration, or table) is, I can probably tell you what part of the page (lefthand or righthand side, 1st or 2nd column, top middle or bottom of the column), and what part of the book (a few pages before the combat tables, a few pages after the sample dungeon map, right before the start of the magic item tables, etc.)