National heath care has arrived (Political)

[AxeMental]

Axe you do know that all state employees are covered by a health insurance plan owned by the State of Florida? The insurance plan is administered by Blue Cross and Blue Shield but is owned by the govt.

Yes. As long as its broken up where each part hunts for the best insurance rates and company thats fine (as it mimics large corporations that pay for medical insurance for each employee). I oppose a huge block however (ie the entire state as one buyer) as it is noncompetitive. If all businesses in the state formed one block and tried this, it would be found to be illegal (though that would of course never happen).

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Off-topic, but I can only say I wish this were true. Sadly, it is nowhere near extremist or right-wing.

Off-topic, I'd be fascinated to know which countries you feel are more extremely right-wing than the US.

[PapersAndPaychecks]

P&P I think England is so far left from us (in so many ways) it makes us look extremely right, just as France is so much farther left it makes England look extremely right to the average Frenchman. In truth our country is far left to where it could be.

Basically the question isn't ethical (we all agree on the need for basic healthcare), the question is rather economics (what system best gets us there) and thats were we differ in opinion.

Well, with respect, I feel that in this difference of opinion, the evidence is on my side. Because I pay less for healthcare through my taxes than I would in the US through insurance. Therefore the British system is the one that's the lowest cost to the individual taxpayer.

P&P your comparison for govt. contracts for military weapons is flawed. The govt. can only buy from one company for the next fighter jet because it needs consistancy and reliability. It can buy from 1000 different drug makers if it chooses.

But only one drug company has the patent for the latest cure for Alzheimers, so I think the defence industry analogy works quite well.

[Flambeaux]

Off-topic, but I can only say I wish this were true. Sadly, it is nowhere near extremist or right-wing.

Off-topic, I'd be fascinated to know which countries you feel are more extremely right-wing than the US.

Right now, I don't think there really are any that are farther right in absolute terms. But the US, even if it is "far right" relative to the UK or another nation in the developed world, is nowhere near the "far right" markers set out in her founding documents.

I'm speaking in absolute terms, not relative to other nations.

[AxeMental]

Post cold war, no more "evil" Soviet Union to point to (to fend off socialism and communism). Many of us feared this would happen sooner or later (and in some ways didn't cheer the iron curtain falling and communist Russia collapsing). Sadly We are slowly becoming what we most opposed (thanks to an ultra liberal leaning press, education system and power hungry government). Its very hard to teach the ideals of free market economics to those raised believing government should take care of you rather then learning to develop survival skills, motivation and business savy.

If things get worse (and they will) we'll either go very far left, or we might go far economic right (if enough American Spirt remains). Our economic freedoms have always gone hand in hand with our cultural freedoms (infact our founding fathers took to Adam Smith like bees to honey).

[Flambeaux]

No republic can long stand without virtuous citizens. Lacking a critical mass of the latter, I infer the former is doomed.

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Right now, I don't think there really are any that are farther right in absolute terms.

Well, that's all I was saying. Compared to the rest of the world the US is an extremely right-wing nation. And far from being "socialist", Britain's a moderately right-wing nation.

But the US, even if it is "far right" relative to the UK or another nation in the developed world, is nowhere near the "far right" markers set out in her founding documents.

No indeed.

Shall I read you some extracts from the founding documents of the British Empire?

But that's hardly relevant to healthcare. I shall desist.

[Flambeaux]

Shall I read you some extracts from the founding documents of the British Empire?

But that's hardly relevant to healthcare. I shall desist.

But perhaps more entertaining to the peanut gallery.

I agree, though. I'll not thread-jack further.

[yrcone]

Off-topic, but I can only say I wish this were true. Sadly, it is nowhere near extremist or right-wing.

Off-topic, I'd be fascinated to know which countries you feel are more extremely right-wing than the US.

More right-wing extremist: See: Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia

Who wants to be extremist right-wing with THOSE guys?

As a German naturalized American living in the US, there are certainly *parts* of the country very right-wing, but for the most part the rest of the country is full of virtuous reasonable people just tryin' to make a living and care for their families.

And yes, as a former German, I think of "reasonable" as NOT right-wing. Total Right-wing = bad. Total Left-wing = bad. The body of the bird with maybe a lean towards either wing is where it's at.

[Flambeaux]

For me, left wing = bad, very bad; right wing = tolerable to very bad.

I'm just not a fan of the world bequeathed to us by the Protestant Reformation, the Treaty of Westphalia, and the French Revolution.

Modernity = Doubleplus Ungood Bad.

[Flambeaux]

Off-topic, but I can only say I wish this were true. Sadly, it is nowhere near extremist or right-wing.

Off-topic, I'd be fascinated to know which countries you feel are more extremely right-wing than the US.

More right-wing extremist: See: Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia

Who wants to be extremist right-wing with THOSE guys?

As a German naturalized American living in the US, there are certainly *parts* of the country very right-wing, but for the most part the rest of the country is full of virtuous reasonable people just tryin' to make a living and care for their families.

And yes, as a former German, I think of "reasonable" as NOT right-wing. Total Right-wing = bad. Total Left-wing = bad. The body of the bird with maybe a lean towards either wing is where it's at.

I suspect we mean different things with the term "right wing". Totalitarian regimes are left wing.

[Dwayanu]

"Right wing" historically has referred to the members of a conservative or reactionary political party, or those opposing extensive political reform.

"Left wing" has meant the members of a socialistic or radical political party, or those favoring extensive political reform.

"Radical" may be understood here in the context of its opposition to "reactionary." Neither is "moderate."

The conservative vs. socialistic alignment reflects the historical context in which socialism was opposed to the established order. Classical (free-market) liberalism has also been on the Left.

The terminology was not invented to describe a world in which democracy and mixed economies are so much the status quo.

[Flambeaux]

Classical (free-market) liberalism has also been on the Left.

In the US tradition of political philosophy, this is not true.

Classical Liberalism has always been of the "Right" in the our context and experience.

[TRP]

So when can I expect to pick up my "free" little blue pills?

JK ... it's Mardi Gras, I'm toasted, and decided to crash the thread.

"Hey, would somebody get this drunk outta here?"

Happy Mardi Gras, ya'll. For another 3 hours CST anyway.

Heh heheh.. 24 pages, and not a single heart or mind won for either side. When do the refs call the game?

*hiccup*

Hasta la vista, baaabeeeee.

[Stonegiant]

Extreme Right= Fascism

Extreme Left= Communism