Knights & Knaves Alehouse

geneweigel: You sure there's no way whatsoever to convince/bribe you into selling me those import manga you got? Hey, maybe we can trade for them if there's something you're looking for.

Truthfully the last time I looked I didn't see them which leads me to think that somebody stole them. So until I go through that endless pile of packed boxes, i'll have to see. They may have been reprints but I have no idea.

geneweigel wrote:Truthfully the last time I looked I didn't see them which leads me to think that somebody stole them. So until I go through that endless pile of packed boxes, i'll have to see. They may have been reprints but I have no idea.

If you find them let me know.

Stonegiant wrote:I'll say it again; Peanuts. They made newspaper strips, comic books, TV specials, two feature films, and Saturday morning cartoons. They are known worldwide and even the youngest kid today knows who snoopy is. The other is Mickey Mouse (aka Disney), these kinds of fame can't even be approached by Manga or anything else the US or any other nation is producing.

Peanuts is an exception to the rule though.

Also, Disney is more known for their cartoons than for their comics. I'm sure if Mickey Mouse had never starred in a single animated short he'd be forgotten today.

geneweigel wrote:Yes, I have low tolerance for the images and the topics are too uninviting to my sensibilites and taste. Plus, I'm more of a fan of American settings and culture in the story that can be related to without too much stretch.

... America has a culture?

Personally I've always found "culture" to be one of the great shills of the modern day. I've never seen a cultural element that is so foreign I couldn't understand it.

With regards to manga, I think the whole "culture gap" problem is exaggerated.

I once talked to someone who said she couldn't get into Rumiko Takahashi's Ranma 1/2 because of "cultural differences." The manga is about a teenage martial-artist who is trying to live a normal life and improve his arts even though he's been forced into three arranged marriages and lives under a curse where he turns into a girl if doused with cold water.

I'm like, "cultural differences? What cultural differences?"

"Well, like... arranged marriages."

I point out that the arranged marriage is a pretty universal tradition, and is even practiced here in America and has been practically since the founding of the country. If that's a "cultural difference" then so is smoking pipe-weed.

"Well then... its weird that he turns into a girl."

"Why is that weird? Its no different than Bugs Bunny cross-dressing."

"But its a curse..."

"And what, America doesn't have legends and horror movies about curses? You've never heard of a curse before!"

"But he transforms!"

"TRANSFORMERS! More than meets the eye!"

It's also always struck me as odd that people zero in on the "Cultural differences" between American and Japanese stuff, and yet we read Brothers Grimm and Hans Christian Anderson fairy tales--hell, most of us grew up with them--and yet not one of those is American, and most of them are full of aspects that are very specific to the religion and culture that produced them, and yet nobody ever has a problem with them. For that matter, 85% of our classic literature is the exact same way, and even the stuff that IS American, like Mark Twain, were written in times that are so different they might as well have been a different culture.

Funnily enough recently on another forum I made a similar point about manga art-style. That's kinda what I was getting at when I said there shouldn't be a designator. There wouldn't even BE a manga-vs-comics chasm if the designator didn't exist. But it does, and it sets up a false conflict.

Yeah, its not so easy to throw stones at a sexually strange stuff and then fall back on "cultural differences" for an excuse.

Its not the sex elements that throw me off though. I'd say its just the merging of "cutesy" with everything. That is a huge cultural gap.

That's not really culture. Manga gets the cutesy big-eye look due to precedent set by Osamu Tezuka, who himself was inspired largely by Disney films and shorts. Also, his manga were for kids, and most of the manga that makes it stateside is for kids too, though some adult authors follow it just because they don't know anything else.

Again I recommend checking out the manga Lupin III (a pastiche of Maurice Leblanc's Arsene Lupin tales) and Golgo 13 (about a professional hitman), both of which were recently translated into English and both of which use non-traditional artstyles.

There's also a very good Golgo 13 anime movie--now available on DVD in the US--called "Golgo 13: The Professional"... though I wouldn't recommend watching it with women or children around. [Lupin III also has several anime movies and TV shows, but they're all drawn in a typical anime style--except for the lanky character designs--so wouldn't help this discussion. They're all good though, especially the Miyazaki-directed Castle of Cagliostro].

Didn't Seijun Suzuki direct a Lupin III movie sometime in the 80s? Seijun Suzuki is a genius.

T. Foster wrote:Didn't Seijun Suzuki direct a Lupin III movie sometime in the 80s? Seijun Suzuki is a genius.

To tell you the truth, the only Japanese directors I can name are Hayao Miyazaki and Osamu Dezaki. I have to look up anyone else.

But anyway, a quick look at Wikipedia reveals that in 1985 he directed Lupin III: Legend of the Gold of Babylon. Further checking reveals that the only North American release of this movie was as a VHS under virtually the same title, but with "Lupin III" changed to "Rupan III" (that's not a mistranslation--it was forced by copyright issues brought up by Leblanc's estate). I believe this is an English dub released by Streamline Pictures, meaning that the English adaptation will probably be pretty good (despite all the hate Carl Macek gets, his localizations are usually far better than what's produced nowadays).