am I right to feel disgruntled?

[Age of Fable]

The goats would generate a wonderful earthy goat hair smell that would get all over your gear and the gear of your party. When you finally reached town you'd stride into a tavern smelling like a goatherd. Finding adventuring work would be hilarious. You say you want to rescue my daughter um....what is it exactly that you do again? Because you smell like you take care of goats...

for 95% of people in a medieval world, surely smelling like you own a lot of goats would be the equivalent of smelling like money and success?

[JamesEightBitStar]

Hey, you think you should be disgrunted? Imagine how the person selling the goats must feel!

"Great, durn DM cost me a pretty platinum...."

[dmccoy1693]

Wasn't there a Knights of the Dinner Table comic almost exactly like this?

I think so.

To the OP, I would expressly let you have your goats at market value (maybe even under market value, since you're buying in bulk). All it takes is 1 gnoll to get past your group and then you have have a scattered herd, the "goat herder" would be rather busy at that point and a glorious TPK would ensue.

Oops, did I say "glorious," I meant "tragic." Yea, that's what I meant.

[dmccoy1693]

for 95% of people in a medieval world, surely smelling like you own a lot of goats would be the equivalent of smelling like money and success?

I don't expect an adventurer to smell like a goat. I expect them to smell like orc blood, sweat, and like they haven't bathed in a year.

[Algolei]

My barbarian Fighter had a pet sheep he called Fluffy Betsy Walking Food Thing. (Originally it was just Betsy, but I forgot and called her Fluffy the second session, and in the third session they were ribbing me about it so I said her full name was Fluffy Betsy Walking Food Thing and they accepted it.)

If I recall correctly, I beat up the MU and the Thief because they kept making sexual jokes about FBWFT.

[geneweigel]

Alright, as a DM and a former goatherd...

NO!

Goats make too much noise.

Goats $%#@ anything that has a vagina or anything they think has a vagina with what I call a "leap attack rape".

Goats bash anything they can't $%#@. Back of the knees and drop you like a sack of potatoes.

They are very hard to control when you want to get them to a specific area.

Of course, this is all stereotypical and results may vary by breed but overall this is what you'll get out of any of them eventually.

[Mythmere]

I would have let you try it, but you wouldn't have enjoyed the results.

Movement rate down to virtually zero, goatherds don't go into danger without serious hazard pay if at all, goats don't want to go underground, goats run at loud noises and the smell of monsters, villagers laugh at the party, monsters are attracted by goats when you're outside civilized areas, etc. There would certainly be benefits, but I would take advantage of the downside.

I think the biggest challenge to a party that tried this would be living it down afterwards...

[Stonegiant]

I would have let you try it, but you wouldn't have enjoyed the results.

Movement rate down to virtually zero, goatherds don't go into danger without serious hazard pay if at all, goats don't want to go underground, goats run at loud noises and the smell of monsters, villagers laugh at the party, monsters are attracted by goats when you're outside civilized areas, etc. There would certainly be benefits, but I would take advantage of the downside.

I think the biggest challenge to a party that tried this would be living it down afterwards...

Not to mention the trouble that they have with trolls and bridges

[Mythmere]

I would have let you try it, but you wouldn't have enjoyed the results.

Movement rate down to virtually zero, goatherds don't go into danger without serious hazard pay if at all, goats don't want to go underground, goats run at loud noises and the smell of monsters, villagers laugh at the party, monsters are attracted by goats when you're outside civilized areas, etc. There would certainly be benefits, but I would take advantage of the downside.

I think the biggest challenge to a party that tried this would be living it down afterwards...

Not to mention the trouble that they have with trolls and bridges

Actually, goats handle that well, but they get a share of the xp.

[JCBoney]

Dispel Goat (Abjuration) Reversible

Level: 2
Range: 9"
Duration: 1d6 turns
Area of Effect: 2" per level
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 4 segments
Saving Throw: none

By casting this spell, the Druid is able to drive away 1d12 goats within the radius described. Affected goats will flee the caster at a traveling rate of 9" per turn until the spell expires.

The reverse of this spell, Summon Goat, will attract 1d12 goats which will appear within 1d4 combat rounds. The goats will obey the commands of the caster provided the caster can communicate with the animals. When cast, the Druid must make a save vs. deathmagic or the goats will not obey his commands and will swarm him, knock him down and eat his garments.

The verbal components of this spell are screaming and whistling; likewise, the somatic components included wild flailing of the arms and banging on metallic objects. Material components include a piece of hide from a freshly killed coyote and several small rocks for throwing at the goats.

[Age of Fable]

The most common response to this seems to be along the lines of "if I was a DM I'd let you do it, but I'd also punish/kill your character for doing it."

So the first point is: is it an obviously stupid idea, of the kind that 'should' kill characters?

Well, I'm no expert on the subject, but certainly the reasons given here aren't compelling. 'Villagers would laugh at you' - yep, people who measure wealth in livestock would certainly laugh at you for having lots of livestock. 'You'd smell funny' - kick us out of the Middle Ages at once, we smell bad. 'Monsters would attack you' - because goats are made out of meat, unlike people. 'You couldn't control them' - oh no, we're in an agricultural society and we have to find some way of herding herd animals, who were herded to the market where we bought them.

Without labouring the point, these aren't reasons, they're excuses.

So what is the reason? Let's say I'm in your game and this happens. What am I meant to learn from that experience? That'll teach me not to...what?

[Stonegiant]

The most common response to this seems to be along the lines of "if I was a DM I'd let you do it, but I'd also punish/kill your character for doing it."

So the first point is: is it an obviously stupid idea, of the kind that 'should' kill characters?

Well, I'm no expert on the subject, but certainly the reasons given here aren't compelling. 'Villagers would laugh at you' - yep, people who measure wealth in livestock would certainly laugh at you for having lots of livestock. 'You'd smell funny' - kick us out of the Middle Ages at once, we smell bad. 'Monsters would attack you' - because goats are made out of meat, unlike people. 'You couldn't control them' - oh no, we're in an agricultural society and we have to find some way of herding herd animals, who were herded to the market where we bought them.

Without labouring the point, these aren't reasons, they're excuses.

So what is the reason? Let's say I'm in your game and this happens. What am I meant to learn from that experience? That'll teach me not to...what?

Points I was trying to make-

1. Every animal gives off its own odor and obvious prey animal such as goats would attract predators. In the real world alot of animals will avoid human contact if that is the only scent they pick up.

2. They will eat everything and make alot of noise even at night, not to mention you have to build a pen every night to contain them unless you are going to devote some of your group to play shepard overnight as well.

3. Is your character or any character in the party an experienced goat shepard? Secondary skill? Proficiency? etc. herding and sheparding are not something that you can do with no experience or training. Look at the difficulties of trained shepards/herders working together with each other and/or with a trained animal assistant (sheep dog etc.). It is a noisey time consuming activity. The type of noise that IMHO would attract the curiosity of any humanoids close by.

4. Also remember that you will be limiting yourself to travel from water source to water source, a party of adventurers would not be able to carry the water nessesary to maintain a heard of goats.

5. Your movement would definatley be slowed down due to these are grazing animals and would need to do so every so often.

I also wouldn't say kill you but I would say that this add element does call for an increase in the chance of wandering monsters/random encounters. There are reasons that flocks and herds were kept close to the home except for certain grazing seasons and even then they would move with a large group.

[AxeMental]

Q: "5. Your movement would definatley be slowed down due to these are grazing animals and would need to do so every so often."

Never mind that most would bolt and ignore attempts to shepard them. One wiff of the smells of many monsters would cause panic among the herd (so that the monster might not need be present, just its sent). Its not just a matter of animals being picked off, its a matter of fear amongst all. Once the flock hit owlbear urine for instance, there's a good chance they'd freak. Monsters, IMO, would generate more fear in farm animals then "regular" preditors. They are MONSTERS afterall.

[Age of Fable]

I don't object to the plan having drawbacks, eg a higher chance of wandering monsters, maybe you've got to roll under your Charisma to get them to do anything - maybe everyone gets a minus on reactions from nobles but a plus on reactions from peasants etc.

I *would* point out that this is a game where you can go caving in plate armour. If there are going to be difficulties, fine, but let's have them on the same level of realism as everything else.

What I object to from my DM is stopping something, apparently on the grounds that it doesn't fit the style of adventure he wants.

What I object to in this thread is hand-rubbing and 'oh man, I would so punish you for doing that'. OK, if that's the punishment, then what's the crime?

A big theme I see on this board is the assertion that later versions of D&D are wrong because they're all about railroading the characters through the DM's story, whereas 1st edition is about players exploring the game world.

I would've thought this was a pretty classic case of railroading. I also would think that gleefully killing someone for doing the 'wrong' thing is worse than railroading.

[AxeMental]

Q: "What I object to from my DM is stopping something, apparently on the grounds that it doesn't fit the style of adventure he wants."

No, there your DM screwed up IMO. His job is to let players do whatever they like and then determine what happens to them (that is how the role is portrayed in the rules). What he might have done instead is inform you of the obvious foolishness of such an attempt (given you would likely know this information growing up in a fantasy world to begin with). If that didn't work, then he should have enjoyed himself. DMs typically love this kind of thing (watching players step in doo doo up to their ears).