{RJK} Bottle City & The Living Room adventures

dcs · Post by **dcs** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:33 am

I made an error on the Living Room news item, by the way. The module will actually be available on the 9th, not just available for pre-order.

T. Foster · Post by **T. Foster** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:59 pm

The historical commentary and designer's notes is what I'm interested in. The facsimile of the original handwritten pages, heavy paper stock, etc. for an extra $130 isn't. By only including the former with the latter Rob has insured that I won't be buying either. Congratulations on losing what would otherwise have been a guaranteed sale!

dcs · Post by **dcs** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:05 pm

Alack, for pity!

GenghisWayne · Post by **GenghisWayne** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:41 pm

T. Foster wrote:The historical commentary and designer's notes is what I'm interested in. The facsimile of the original handwritten pages, heavy paper stock, etc. for an extra $130 isn't. By only including the former with the latter Rob has insured that I won't be buying either. Congratulations on losing what would otherwise have been a guaranteed sale!

Thanks Trent! I kind of feel the same way about this. Excluding this info (probably 2 pages of info) is kinda astonishing.

GW-

grodog · Post by **grodog** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:26 am

That information will be excluded from the current standard edition, in order to help make the collector edition a more viable/valuable product. That said, I will still be writing the same introduction for both editions, and my intro will certainly include some historical commentary, information for Greyhawk fans, and such, so I'm not sure exactly what folks will be missing out on from the designer notes and historical commentary from Rob (since neither that material nor my intro has been written yet). There will be less info, yes, but I don't think it's going to be orders of magnitude less. In addition to this info, the limited edition will be printed on nicer paper, the poster map will be a single sheet vs. multiple sheets, etc., so there are other differentiators between the two editions, to again help to increase the value of the collectors edition, but also to keep the cost down on producing the standard edition so that its very accessible to the average fan.

This approach is an experiment to try to make products that are accessible to fans while still supporting the collector market too (that market is what funds PPP on a daily basis, since Rob isn't expecting to sell thousands of the standard edition). Balancing the needs of both sets of customers is tough, so if folks aren't happy with these options, let Rob know, and more importantly let him know what you'd prefer to see in the standard editions, or in later reprints/collections, etc.

The BC forum is @ http://p085.ezboard.com/fpiedpiperpublishingfrm60 and any and all feedback is not only welcome, but essential if this experiment is going in the wrong direction.

Mythmere · Post by **Mythmere** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:41 am

It makes a lot of sense to support the collector market - just as a matter of making enough money to make it feasible to publish.

What's a shame, here, is the amount of premium placed on the historical information. People here want to see it, but can't ante up the kind of cash being asked.

It would have been nicer (from the poor person's perspective) to see a collector's edition that's higher quality material, signed, numbered, containing duplicates of handwritten material, etc., but not containing more substantive information. I think the collectors would still go for that, and the buyers of the standard edition would still get all the information.

It also creates an incentive for the illegal spread of a pdf version of the document. The collectors' edition will be out there like lightning, and since it has additional information a lot of people will look for it. And in possession of a pdf, may not bother to buy the print version. It will cause people to specifically anticipate the pdf scan rather than the published adventure.

Something about this particular strategy for attracting collectors (ie., extra information rather than extra quality) strikes me as a bad idea, although other than the pdf thing, I'm not sure I can put my finger on it. But reminding one set of customers that you simply won't sell to them at an affordable price ... strikes me as a bad marketing plan. I can't put my finger on it exactly.

JCBoney · Post by **JCBoney** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:50 am

It is a bad marketing plan.

I can pay it. I won't though.

Mythmere · Post by **Mythmere** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:02 am

I put my finger on it: it's going to piss people off. I was about to go to PPP and make my suggestion, and then I thought to myself, "why bother? There's no way I'm going to endure the flames I'll get for making a suggestion to change something just for Rob's benefit, when Rob's the guy who's happily pricing me out of the market."

And that's the problem. Even dwelling on it makes me disinclined to buy the standard version, just out of annoyance. I don't know how many people care about the historical info ---- but Rob's whole selling point on this module is that it's got history. Most of the buyers have at least some interest in that historical information. Say 90%. Say that 90% of that market won't shell out $150, or whatever. This means that RJK just pissed off - to some degree - something like 81% of his market (not taking the time to recheck my math).

Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:14 am

Count me among those who are unwilling to pay $150 dollars for the limited edition, despite my interest in the historical notes. I'll still buy the standard edition, but without the same degree of enthusiam I had, earlier. As was pointed out higher up in the thread, one of the big draws of stuff like Bottle City is the history, so cutting that material hurts.

dcs · Post by **dcs** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:55 am

Read the following from Rob and please add your comments:

Bottle City Feedback

Mythmere · Post by **Mythmere** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:40 am

Wrote a long response and it got eaten by the messageboard. Forget it. Just let Gene dismiss all adverse commentary as internet "roguery" and let the chips fall where they may. I'm done with this topic: it's stupid. I'm tired of the old guard hoarding their memories for moola. I'm too old to be explaining basic economics when I'm not paid for it, and I'm sure as hell not going to type it out twice when the recipient's messageboard loses the text. I got paid a six figure salary for this kind of advice before I crashed and burned with the bipolar disorder, so readers can decide what's speaking now, experience or insanity.

Summary:
1) this strategy will make more money on Bottle City than it would if my advice were followed.

2) this strategy will lose money on the next module and the ones thereafter, with the long term loss exceeding the short term gain.

Now I'm done, annoyed, and not planning to buy the module. That's my internet "roguery" according to Gene, and it means Rob is out $20 of revenue. (can you tell I'm trying to cut down on smoking?)

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:39 pm

I still plan on getting the standard edition. Would I like to have the other information? Sure would! I'm a little disappointed, but I can live with that. Life is like that!

That being said, I wouldn't give up the ship! Rob is asking for suggestions. I could frankly give a s&^t what Gene thinks! He's not writing the module, is he? More that likely, things will be added that hadn't been previously planned. Which I think will be the case.

I want to see the Bottle City adventure. Whatever else comes with it is a bonus!!

Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:03 pm

Rob's response in the Bottle City feedback thread sounded pretty darn positive to me.

Mythmere · Post by **Mythmere** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:12 pm

Yeah, I'm cooling off, too. I'll still probably end up buying the SE, in all truth.

TRP · Post by **TRP** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:19 pm

I didn't care what was going on in Wisconsin in 1980, and prior, so I sure don't care now. So and so died here and such and such happened there. OOooohh.. I'm all goosebumply. Not. Twenty bucks is plenty enough for me to create my own memories. No need to relive others' memories. Bigger maps and sturdier paper may be worth a little more. Heck, if it were available in PDF from the get-go, I'd probably go that route.

More game companies should checkout the reconstituted Iron Crown's strategy of making nearly everything available in PDF. It's working quite well for them. Heck, being able to purchase so much in PDF, I probably own 3 times the number of ICE books I would than if I had to buy print versions.

But, I'm just a grumpy ol' cuss who already blurted he's a gamer not a collector anywho.

Uhh.. so yeah. If the reviews for the SE are good, I'll likely pony up $20 for it.