The Skeptic's Guide To Global Warming

[Shalaban]

That's the great thing about this place; the policy is if you can't hack some friendly disagreement, then you don't belong here.

I see. Thank you for setting me straight on the site’s policy. I am new and the rules on posting were vague on this subject.

Well then it appears that most of you have taken the steps necessary then. Being somewhat of an outsider and not knowing any of you personally I was not sure and worried.

and we're all mature enough to let those situations come up without degenerating to calling each other "poopy-heads"

I in no way intended to bring the maturity of our patrons under scrutiny. I respect and like what we have here and had concern to not lose sight of that.

Let it be said that this site is IMO the best on the web. I had no idea that there were as many people out there like myself who were in to 1st ed. AD&D. Its lonely out here in Lancaster when it comes to old RPGs... I have the most respect for all of the opinions on gaming and all other topics as most of the time my reasoning goes along the same rout.

Please feel free to debate on. It is only to my edification if nothing else that I have to gain by this debate.

[dcs]

If CO2 is the culprit, should we go Kodos the Executioner and demand a population reduction?

Don't give "them" any ideas -- "they" already think that there are too many people on the planet.

[JCBoney]

If CO2 is the culprit, should we go Kodos the Executioner and demand a population reduction?

Don't give "them" any ideas -- "they" already think that there are too many people on the planet.

Oh, I was gonna offer some assistance.

I have a list...

[T. Foster]

I see. Thank you for setting me straight on the site’s policy. I am new and the rules on posting were vague on this subject.

Well then it appears that most of you have taken the steps necessary then. Being somewhat of an outsider and not knowing any of you personally I was not sure and worried.

I in no way intended to bring the maturity of our patrons under scrutiny. I respect and like what we have here and had concern to not lose sight of that.

Let it be said that this site is IMO the best on the web. I had no idea that there were as many people out there like myself who were in to 1st ed. AD&D. Its lonely out here in Lancaster when it comes to old RPGs... I have the most respect for all of the opinions on gaming and all other topics as most of the time my reasoning goes along the same rout.

Please feel free to debate on. It is only to my edification if nothing else that I have to gain by this debate.

Hi Shalaban,

Don't sweat it. We have a long tradition of semi-heated off-topic discussions here, and even though the disagreements are strong, and strongly worded, nobody takes it personally and there are no hard feelings afterward. It's part of what makes the site unique, IMNSHO -- our game-discussion tends to be more thoughtful and substantive than a lot of other places, and so does our off-topic discussion. If you aren't interested in these types of discussions (or, conversely, are interested but don't think you can engage in these sorts of discussions without getting upset, taking it personally, and poisoning your enjoyment of the rest of the site -- and it's part of the maturity we expect of our users to recognize this distinction) then please avoid them (which is what I do, except that as a co-Admin I feel an obligation to check in occasionally to make sure things aren't getting too far out of hand (or that the thread hasn't reached the point of diminishing returns where the same 2 or 3 people are recycling the same arguments back and forth -- at which point we usually lock the thread and call it a day)).

[xyanthon]

That's good to know about the debates. I just wanted to point out that I'm one of the limp wristed commie Democrats that they are talking about (I've been in the military for 13 years and have heard it all). So I guess what folks say here shouldn't affect me that much either.

[Shalaban]

Cool. Thanks. None of this upsets me. I find it fascinating as well as informative. (I’m trying to get my wife to read this thread as we have seen a lot in the media on the subject.)

But thanks for the info because I was worried. I’ve read most of the boards here and had yet to see such strongly diametrical view points on real world topics.

I did not mean to ‘Mother’ anyone. I normally don’t take the role of the passive one…

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Well, the only unifying passion we share is a love of out of print RPGs. We have widely disparate backgrounds, education, character, personal wealth levels and political opinions.

Over the course of a very long online association (we'd all "met" online long before Jerry set up the Alehouse), we've also learned that some of us enjoy the occasional heated political or socioeconomic debate, and nobody seems to get overly offended by it.

To give you an idea of the range of opinions on offer -- I'm personally a British Liberal. (I understand that in America, "Liberal" means "Socialist" -- we've had that debate before. It doesn't mean that here.)

I also work in local government under the Labour government, which means that I believe in Keynesian economics, targeted state intervention in preference to laissez faire, I find it acceptable to reduce certain civil liberties in favour of national security (for example, I approve wholeheartedly of the British view of firearms), I approve wholeheartedly of the National Health Service and I pay the taxes associated with that with pleasure, and I don't understand social restrictions such as bans on gay marriage or high minimum drinking ages.

I'm also a US-skeptic. I quite like many individual Americans, but I'm less than thrilled with US foreign policy in a substantial number of respects, and when people assert that America is the best country in the world, as quite often seems to happen, I have a bad habit of setting them straight. I also have fairly strong opinions on Guantanamo Bay and Kyoto.

(It also happens that I have a former infantryman friend who was fired on by American troops in a friendly fire incident in 2003 -- he wasn't seriously hurt, but his stories of Iraq have very much coloured my view of the US military. I understand that after that, the US troops involved were actually sent on an actual training course to teach them to recognise the Union Flag. Really.)

I'm also a rabid atheist with very strong opinions on religion, so it's probably fortunate that the site's policy forbids discussion of real-world religions.

In contrast, some of the site members are highly patriotic, right-wing, pro-gun Americans with a laissez-faire or libertarian view of market regulation and social issues and a tax-cutting agenda, who often genuinely respect the US military, and think it's not just true but self-evidently true that the US is the best place to live in the world.

All in all, it's a good thing we've mostly got pretty thick skins.

[Mythmere]

Over the course of a very long online association (we'd all "met" online long before Jerry set up the Alehouse)

That's true for many of the "older" members, but the site has attracted many new members since then, including me.

[AxeMental]

Wow. When did you show up Myth?

[Mythmere]

Wow. When did you show up Myth?

Jerry asked me over from the TLG website back when I was playing C&C; that was the old proboards K&KA ... but it would have been 2005, early in 2005. I'd never met anyone before then.

[JDJarvis]

The US spends slightly more on defence, annually, than the rest of the world put together.
.

for the U.S. such spending is 1/6th of the annual budget. for Russia defense spending is 1/2 the national budget, for Saudi Arabia it is 1/3 the national budget.


why shouldn't it spend more? It has more to defend- about 23% of the world GWP is under the watch of the U.S. (truthfully much more as part of those defense spendings goes to guard others as part of treaties or quasi-empire).

of course I do agree with the notion that seeing if the environment can be kept form going to hell should in some fashion count as defense of the country.

[JDJarvis]

Global warming isn't going to matter much when the world is destroyed in 2028.

[PapersAndPaychecks]

For the U.S. such spending is 1/6th of the annual budget. for Russia defense spending is 1/2 the national budget, for Saudi Arabia it is 1/3 the national budget.

Britain's military obligation extends to protecting slightly over a quarter of the world's population, i.e. those fifteen nations which still acknowledge Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth as head of state.

Our forces are easily adequate to do this. Truth is, if we face a serious threat from any of the four nations with a military that could take on the UK, then we're all headed for a nuclear winter anyway.

Why does the US need so much more?

[rogatny]

Why does the US need so much more?

The human wall we provide between North and South Korea accounts for a lot of it. (U.N. mandated, by the way.)

The fact that we basically are the Japanese armed forces accounts for a good deal more. (Part of the Japanese Constitution)

The major presence in Germany that NATO (for some unfathomable reason) still deems necessary is another big part of it.

We also have defense obligations with Taiwan.

[JCBoney]

Don't forget Canada. We basically shield her as well.

On a side note: I'm very pleased with how this thread turned out. I'm glad I started it. There's been some fascinating facts and viewpoints posted here, and I honestly didn't think it would extend so many pages as it has.