Knights & Knaves Alehouse

T. Foster wrote:Necropolis has fully 50pp of nothing but stat-blocks (DJ's stat-blocks make 3E look like OD&D).

Yes, but aren't all the monsters in Necropolis new? Mythus never had what one would call a proper monster manual, only the bestiary.

I knew when I used BtMoM as an example that it was not a spot-on example for an AD&D module. Axe posted he personally preferred shorter modules, and I countered that my personal preference could embrace a long, long adventure module and that such modules could be well done. Whatever the game system. ToEE and Caverns of Thracia, both mentioned already, are probably better AD&D examples, but I was reaching for the extreme. For that I had to reach all the way to Antartica.

meepo wrote:

John Stark wrote:I guess I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'd pay $20 for an 8 page module that was as good as any one of the G modules. When I say "as good" as one of the G modules, I don't mean that just in terms of art or layout. I mean the quality of the adventure itself. IMO 20 bucks for a module that's as good as one of those classics would be the best gaming investment I could make, as compared to buying, say, 40 pages of crap that gets called a "module" these days.

The G and D series were all short in terms of page count, and yet I've used them many times (B1, B2, and T1 fall into this category as well). Give me modules like those, and I'd gladly pay much more for them than I'd normally consider spending on a gaming product. When I can reuse something over and over again over the course of two decades, I'm glad to fork over my hard earned cash regardless of the length.

Formatting and page count mean far less to me than the quality of the adventure.

Well said and exactly what I was trying to convey. I don't expect the sun and the moon for a few bucks, just a fun, rewarding, and memorable adventure to wrap a few sessions around.

The problem with this is you won't know if it has this kind of value to you until AFTER you buy it.

Treebore wrote:

meepo wrote:

John Stark wrote:I guess I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'd pay $20 for an 8 page module that was as good as any one of the G modules. When I say "as good" as one of the G modules, I don't mean that just in terms of art or layout. I mean the quality of the adventure itself. IMO 20 bucks for a module that's as good as one of those classics would be the best gaming investment I could make, as compared to buying, say, 40 pages of crap that gets called a "module" these days.

The G and D series were all short in terms of page count, and yet I've used them many times (B1, B2, and T1 fall into this category as well). Give me modules like those, and I'd gladly pay much more for them than I'd normally consider spending on a gaming product. When I can reuse something over and over again over the course of two decades, I'm glad to fork over my hard earned cash regardless of the length.

Formatting and page count mean far less to me than the quality of the adventure.

Well said and exactly what I was trying to convey. I don't expect the sun and the moon for a few bucks, just a fun, rewarding, and memorable adventure to wrap a few sessions around.

The problem with this is you won't know if it has this kind of value to you until AFTER you buy it.

Much like every book I buy: a leap of faith! I'm just suggesting size and amount of artwork vs. a price point doesn't neccasarily make it a quality product.

CapN wrote:For US$10 I'd expect a minimum of 100 to 200 pages, depending on paper quality. I'd prefer it with no illustrations, A5 format and 8-point Verdana font.

And here I thought I was tight!

JRMapes wrote:

CapN wrote:For US$10 I'd expect a minimum of 100 to 200 pages, depending on paper quality. I'd prefer it with no illustrations, A5 format and 8-point Verdana font.

And here I thought I was tight!

I have two books of about 100 pages, in similar format to that, which were sold for R$9.80 (about US$4). Paying much more for that is a rip-off.

I'd expect a book (a novel etc.) to be 100+ pages, but not a module. Of course thats the rub, most new modules and supls. are sold more as novels then they are as tools for gaming (think CZ for instance). I think those of us who buy the high page count modules do so out of desperation, as its that or nothing.

I suspect this has to do with paying per word rather then royalties, as well as the cost of printing (I suspect its not that much more to produce a 30 page module then a 90 pager, but you can charge 3 times more. Isn't the cover and binding process the most expensive part?

CapN wrote:

JRMapes wrote:

CapN wrote:For US$10 I'd expect a minimum of 100 to 200 pages, depending on paper quality. I'd prefer it with no illustrations, A5 format and 8-point Verdana font.

And here I thought I was tight!

I have two books of about 100 pages, in similar format to that, which were sold for R$9.80 (about US$4). Paying much more for that is a rip-off.

Which 2 books? Seems like a real deal; a 100 page print adventure module for $4US. I didn't pay that little for modules 26 years ago. At least, I assume you're talking about adventure modules?

Treebore wrote:

meepo wrote:

John Stark wrote:I guess I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'd pay $20 for an 8 page module that was as good as any one of the G modules. When I say "as good" as one of the G modules, I don't mean that just in terms of art or layout. I mean the quality of the adventure itself. IMO 20 bucks for a module that's as good as one of those classics would be the best gaming investment I could make, as compared to buying, say, 40 pages of crap that gets called a "module" these days.

The G and D series were all short in terms of page count, and yet I've used them many times (B1, B2, and T1 fall into this category as well). Give me modules like those, and I'd gladly pay much more for them than I'd normally consider spending on a gaming product. When I can reuse something over and over again over the course of two decades, I'm glad to fork over my hard earned cash regardless of the length.

Formatting and page count mean far less to me than the quality of the adventure.

Well said and exactly what I was trying to convey. I don't expect the sun and the moon for a few bucks, just a fun, rewarding, and memorable adventure to wrap a few sessions around.

The problem with this is you won't know if it has this kind of value to you until AFTER you buy it.

Believe me, I try before I buy.

John Stark wrote:

Treebore wrote:

meepo wrote: Well said and exactly what I was trying to convey. I don't expect the sun and the moon for a few bucks, just a fun, rewarding, and memorable adventure to wrap a few sessions around.

The problem with this is you won't know if it has this kind of value to you until AFTER you buy it.

Believe me, I try before I buy.

If you wait to do that all the time you may miss out on stuff. Its why I wait on reviews most times. Unless they are a company I have come to trust like Necromancer, TLG, Goodman, Paizo, and Green Ronin. They deliver what I expect frequently enough that I buy stuff "blind" from them.

Of course now I hang out on their boards enough that I am rarely "blind" about anything anymore.

I do find it funny that I don't buy WOTC "blind" anymore, except their modules. I know I will get at least pretty maps and illustrations so I buy them irregardless.

Of course I now have a growing fondness for XRP. Now that I met Joe at GenCon I'm pretty sure I know why. His tastes in adventures and gaming details are very similiar to mine, plus he is motivated enough to put it into print, unlike me. Plus he has Suzi to smack him upside the head and keep him on the straight and narrow.

Of course now Suzi has done her own book, Silk Road. Its a fine book all on its own too. So I guess they both have a desire for that kind of gaming detail, and the motivation to get it into print.

Have any of you looked at those books? Meaning the Magical Medievel Society books. If you haven't you should, no matter what edition you play. Yeah, there is "3E" stuff in there, but the good info is very much useable for any medievel type of game, fantasy or not.

Wow! Did I get stuck on "ramble" or what? OK, I'll turn off now.

TheRedPriest wrote:Which 2 books? Seems like a real deal; a 100 page print adventure module for $4US. I didn't pay that little for modules 26 years ago. At least, I assume you're talking about adventure modules?

I doubt you'd find it there. One is a campaing setting, called Tormenta, and the other has five modules, called Só Aventuras.

CapN wrote:

TheRedPriest wrote:Which 2 books? Seems like a real deal; a 100 page print adventure module for $4US. I didn't pay that little for modules 26 years ago. At least, I assume you're talking about adventure modules?

I doubt you'd find it there. One is a campaing setting, called Tormenta, and the other has five modules, called Só Aventuras.

You're pretty much right. I couldn't find anything D&D related on Tormenta. Are Só Aventuras from Dragão Brasil? Unless there are English translations for these, I am SOL. Even if there were, I doubt seriously they could be picked up here for 4 bucks. Anything for any game system in the States for that little, may as well be given away for free.

TheRedPriest wrote:Are Só Aventuras from Dragão Brasil?

Yes.

Unless there are English translations for these, I am SOL.

Certainly there aren't.