Knights & Knaves Alehouse

I'm probably going to get lambasted for this, but...

...I've tried to read the Arthurian legends in many forms, from Le Morte de Arthur to T.H. Whyte's The Once and Future King, and even Bullfinch's Mythology, and finally through Wikipedia...

...But...

...It's one of the most absolute boring mythologies ever! I'm sorry, but I just can't get into it... I mean, a kingdom comes to be because some man got too horny, his son becomes the best king Britain has ever known, but he too fails because everyone lets their hormones get the better of them. This is supposed to be fun? Sure, there's other stories, but those tend to get left by the wayside.

Easily this is not one of my favorite mythologies. In fact, the only version of it I really enjoyed was the Saturday Morning cartoon King Arthur and the Knights of Justice, and that's mostly because the show had a catchy theme song.

hmmm... i like the grail-part of the legends.

Blasphemer!

How about the various Arthurian movies? Like any of them?

BonesMcCoy wrote:Blasphemer!

How about the various Arthurian movies? Like any of them?

Truth be told, I've only seen three: Disney's The Sword in the Stone, Excalibur, and the recent Tristan and Isolde.

I can't remember what I thought of SitS (been awhile), but I remember thinking Excalibur was crap and didn't really care for TaS.

JamesEightBitStar wrote:but I remember thinking Excalibur was crap

Heresy!

/grabs pitch forks and torches while the mob gathers in the town square

Try reading Chronicles of Prydain, JEBS; go in understanding that it's juvenile fantasy and it'll still feel good to read.

(And yeah, Excalibur is friggin' terrible!)

The original materials that were put together by Malory into his version of the Arthurian legends are actually much better than Malory's version. Chretien de Troyes is the only author I remember, but this material has some much weirder stuff and great names.

thedungeondelver wrote:(And yeah, Excalibur is friggin' terrible!)

*scratches DD and 8bit off his christmas card list*

Mythmere wrote:The original materials that were put together by Malory into his version of the Arthurian legends are actually much better than Malory's version. Chretien de Troyes is the only author I remember, but this material has some much weirder stuff and great names.

Chretien de Troyes' stuff ("Parsifal") introduced the idea of the Holy Grail and the Fisher King, but he died before he could finish it and there are four major continuations of the poem by other hands produced over the next few centuries.

The original, written in medieval French verse, is unbearably hard to read. The simplistic rhyme scheme deteriorates into doggerel to the Anglophone ear after only a few thousand rhymes. If you can get a decent translation into modern English prose it becomes bearable.

But yeah, I generally agree with the OP: If you're looking for the roots of English literature, try Beowulf.

As for Excalibur, I must admit that it sucks a lot less than most fantasy films.

The bloke who commits the rape while wearing a rather nice set of fifteenth century Milanese plate makes my eyes water, because that would injure him even more seriously than it would injure her.

thedungeondelver wrote:Try reading Chronicles of Prydain, JEBS; go in understanding that it's juvenile fantasy and it'll still feel good to read.

(And yeah, Excalibur is friggin' terrible!)

My college's library had those books. I almost read them, but was in the middle of Chronicles of Narnia at the time.

PapersAndPaychecks wrote:The bloke who commits the rape while wearing a rather nice set of fifteenth century Milanese plate makes my eyes water, because that would injure him even more seriously than it would injure her.

I don't recall there being a rape scene in Excalibur. Was it editted out of the DVD release?

I must agree with whoever mentioned Beowulf--that story was MUCH better than most versions of the Arthurian lore.

But I don't read stories to see the "roots" of things (I used to, but I've lost my scholary interest and now only care about being entertained).

I actually liked the newish KING ARTHUR movie, the one where Arthur is a Roman commander and he and his pals are guarding Hadron's wall. Several books and websites seem to mirror this general tale as being one of the more "realistic" of them all.

The "Director's Cut" DVD version has a few extra neat scenes in it, but also a lot of blood splatter that might turn off the young-uns a bit.

SPOILER:
Arthur becomes king at the end.

JamesEightBitStar wrote:I don't recall there being a rape scene in Excalibur. Was it editted out of the DVD release?

Dunno, never saw the DVD (and there are often variations between US releases and British ones anyway).

There's a scene where Uther (technically) rapes Igrayne, although details are off camera.

The actress who played Igrayne was the director's daughter, iirc, so I find the scene a bit weird.

PapersAndPaychecks wrote:

JamesEightBitStar wrote:I don't recall there being a rape scene in Excalibur. Was it editted out of the DVD release?

Dunno, never saw the DVD (and there are often variations between US releases and British ones anyway).

Nope, I've got the DVD and it's all there.

PapersAndPaychecks wrote:There's a scene where Uther (technically) rapes Igrayne, although details are off camera.

Not offscreen at all. He in full plate armor and her naked as the moment she was born. Only bigger. ;-Þ

PapersAndPaychecks wrote:The actress who played Igrayne was the director's daughter, iirc, so I find the scene a bit weird.

Yep, John Boorman. I remember the reviews at the time mentioned the same creepiness 'bout the whole scene.

All in all, I find the movie great fun. It also featured some great actors we in the states didn't know at the time. Patrick Stewart, Liam Neeson and Gabriel Byrne, Nigel Terry, Helen Mirren (woohoo!) and Nicol Williamson.

TheRedPriest wrote:Not offscreen at all. He in full plate armor and her naked as the moment she was born. Only bigger. ;-Þ

Yeah, but the - ah - details are off camera. Um. If you follow me.