Knights & Knaves Alehouse

grodog wrote:Since OSRIC is really targeted toward folks who already know how to play, I'm not sure these would be as useful as they are for new rpg systems. That said, having distilled BTB one-page handouts for combat, surprise, initiative, and what-not might be worthwhile (perhaps as freebies downloads if the JSK itself isn't worthwhile).

Thoughts?

Honestly guys, I think putting out anything right now that would indicate OSRIC is intended as a playable game that can replace AD&D rather than publishing tool for creating materials for AD&D would be a huge mistake. I understand that the JSK could just as easily be used for AD&D, but it certainly sends a strong signal that "we expect people to start playing OSRIC" if you put out a "how to play OSRIC" product. I think a lot of the goodwill OSRIC has garnered with its initial release may fade away if people start believing the plan is for people to play OSRIC rather than simply publish with OSRIC.

I'm not saying this product is a bad idea, just that I don't think it's appropriate until a strong body of AD&D compatible adventures and supplements has already been established to illustrate to people what OSRIC's true intentions are.

blackprinceofmuncie wrote:

grodog wrote:Since OSRIC is really targeted toward folks who already know how to play, I'm not sure these would be as useful as they are for new rpg systems. That said, having distilled BTB one-page handouts for combat, surprise, initiative, and what-not might be worthwhile (perhaps as freebies downloads if the JSK itself isn't worthwhile).

Thoughts?

Honestly guys, I think putting out anything right now that would indicate OSRIC is intended as a playable game that can replace AD&D rather than publishing tool for creating materials for AD&D would be a huge mistake. I understand that the JSK could just as easily be used for AD&D, but it certainly sends a strong signal that "we expect people to start playing OSRIC" if you put out a "how to play OSRIC" product. I think a lot of the goodwill OSRIC has garnered with its initial release may fade away if people start believing the plan is for people to play OSRIC rather than simply publish with OSRIC.

I'm not saying this product is a bad idea, just that I don't think it's appropriate until a strong body of AD&D compatible adventures and supplements has already been established to illustrate to people what OSRIC's true intentions are.

Excellent strategic point.

I still likethe idea of a 1E DM screen

Perhaps whats needed is a downloadable "HOW TOO" guide to design and publish a true late 1970s early 80s style module using OSRIC (I know I could use something like this).

Something that not only covers the legal issues of both the WOTC OGL and OSRICs, (where to place it in the module, what words to avoid etc. with a disclaimer of course) but also suggestions that might help a newbie publisher (suggests fonts that are old school, as well as letter size, spacing, a list of artists if we have one, free clip art sources, Myths artwork etc.) hints on software to use, methods of editing you mightg suggests. You know, something that unifies everything into a STEP1: STEP 2: etc. A "hold your hand document". Something that helps would be module writers the traps you uncoverred when you wrote your first material for publishing....to help others not make the same mistakes you made.

Then you might provide a seperate link to it on DF and other places. It might be best if someone did this that wasn't tied directly to OSRIC however, if it crosses the line in anyway.

Maybe you guys have a point. Instead of making it an OSRIC jump start, make it a FES introductory dungeon "tutorial" product. More on this idea later.

WSmith wrote:Instead of making it an OSRIC jump start, make it a FES introductory dungeon "tutorial" product.

If you're talking about something along the lines of B1 where the module leaves some parts open for the newbie DM to fill in as he goes, that sounds awesome!

Mythmere wrote:

blackprinceofmuncie wrote:I think a lot of the goodwill OSRIC has garnered with its initial release may fade away if people start believing the plan is for people to play OSRIC rather than simply publish with OSRIC.

Excellent strategic point.

I agree, and this distinction is going to probably make me rethink some of my editing critiques: the distinction between OSRIC as a vehicle to publish AD&D materials vs. being a full, stand-alone game based on the OGL is well-worth foregrounding as I read. I keep pushing the ms. for more detail, but that detail does already exist, right on my shelf

A corollary to BPOM's point, I think, is that when we are promoting OSRIC (.sigs, PRs, etc.), there should be some way to allude to AD&D without calling it that: PnP's .sig suggests we should play OSRIC, but we really should be playing AD&D, not OSRIC (if I'm following BPOM's point to it's conlclusion properly).

Anyone who's not involved with publishing the document can freely use WotC trademarks (i.e. - AD&D) when speaking about OSRIC. In fact, I'm not entirely sure that people involved with publishing OSRIC aren't entitled to do the same thing. The Castles and Crusades crew seem to get away with pimping their game as AD&D compatible all over the internet with no legal repercussions and they are technically operating under the OGL too.

IMO the only thing the OGL prevents a publisher from doing is sticking a "compatible with" statement on their product. I can understand Matt and Stuart wanting to play it safe, but the rest of us (IM - admittedly non expert - O) are perfectly safe saying "OSRIC is AD&D in everything but name".

For those more intimately involved with the project who might not want to be so blatant, I like the turn of phrase recently coined in the 1e forum at DF... "the game we all grew up playing". I think that gets the message across pretty clearly. For example...

OSRIC. Fantasy adventure publications for the game you grew up playing.

or

OSRIC fantasy RPG publications. New material for use with your old books.

Something along those lines.

blackprinceofmuncie wrote:

WSmith wrote:Instead of making it an OSRIC jump start, make it a FES introductory dungeon "tutorial" product.

If you're talking about something along the lines of B1 where the module leaves some parts open for the newbie DM to fill in as he goes, that sounds awesome!

Yes, but with starting pre-gen PCs, tables to to roll on fill in the empty rooms with mosters and treasure (like the Random Dungeon Generation Appendix in the DMG), and a mini rules synopsis sections at the end of the module to carry the charcaters to maybe 2nd or even 3rd level.

The rules synopsis is going to have only the very essential stuff to make the module run, but a smart GM would be able to extrapolate from.

grodog wrote:A jump start kit consists of a pregen PCs, a short starter scenario able to played in one evening, simplified one-page summaries of how to run the complicated stuff (combat and spell casting in ArM), and one-page summaries as intros to the game/genre, and what a rpg is.

...That said, having distilled BTB one-page handouts for combat, surprise, initiative, and what-not might be worthwhile (perhaps as freebies downloads if the JSK itself isn't worthwhile).

Just quoting to feed my hunger for thought. Trying the mesh this with a B1 type concept shouldn't be too hard.

Stonegiant wrote:Would you guys like for me to create the dungeon maps and say a small overland map (say a frontier barony, or a small duchy, etc.) with communities etc. that can be a campaign starting area?

That would be great.

Some revival of this idea, prompted by RFisher @ ENWorld: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=181542&page=3 and the post itself is @ http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p ... ost3205373