Knights & Knaves Alehouse

I recently watched The Whole Wide World, a movie about the romance between Robert E Howard and Novalyne Price. (Novalyne Price was partial inspiration for the Conan story Red Nails.) If you're not an REH fan, then it's probably not worth watching, but I found it fascinating.

I was curious how accurate it was, so I read the REH biography Blood & Thunder by Finn. The movie was surprisingly accurate. (It was certainly more faithful a movie than any of the Conan movies...) At some point, I'll probably track down a copy of Novalyne Price Ellis's book she wrote on her relationship with REH (she wrote it late in life, which was the basis for the movie, but she had journaled extensively while dating REH since she wanted to be a writer.)

REH was not a normal guy. Dude was strange and so was his family. Finn blames REH's parents, that they were too controlling, but I think the truth is, REH and his parents all had mental issues, and REH would never have been a normal guy.

He killed himself when he was 30. He had lived his entire life with his parents. Novalyne was the only girlfriend he ever had, and he didn't meet her until he was 28.

One story that caught my eye was the death of REH's dog. REH had a dog when he was a boy. The dog lived for 12 years. REH, at the age of 22, left town so he wouldn't have to be present during the dying days of his own dog. He kept calling every day until the dog died.

This is significant, because at age 30, REH killed himself upon learning that his mother would not recover from her coma. (She died the day after REH.) REH had contemplated suicide for years.

I can only wonder what if... REH had endured the death of his mother, or pursued Novalyne. It really was a shame and a waste.

People that are standard deviations more creative than normal are generally fucked up folks who've stumbled onto the one healthy outlet for their inner monologue. Not all of them, but many of them.

I really liked that film too. D'Onofrio is generally excellent in anything and this was no exception.

For all his faults, Lovecraft was probably a lot more mentally "normal" than REH. Cross Plains TX (at that time at least) seems that it was, at the very least, stifling for someone with that much creativity. Nowadays, someone in his shoes would have more opportunities and means to travel and experience firsthand the kinds of things he so obviously spent so much of his life dreaming about. It's rather sad - essentially all we got from REH was his juvenilia. Who knows what he may have spent the rest of his life writing about. Presumably he may have still been around in our lifetimes and as influential as someone like Asimov or Heinlein.

Now I want to watch that movie.

Steve wrote:He killed himself when he was 30. He had lived his entire life with his parents. Novalyne was the only girlfriend he ever had, and he didn't meet her until he was 28.

One story that caught my eye was the death of REH's dog. REH had a dog when he was a boy. The dog lived for 12 years. REH, at the age of 22, left town so he wouldn't have to be present during the dying days of his own dog. He kept calling every day until the dog died.

I didn't even know he killed himself until it was mentioned (at the point where he did it between the publication of two of the last stories) in the audiobook omnibus I've been listening to.

No wonder the bit about the dog in Beyond the Black River was so touching.

"Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know." Ernest Hemingway

It is a bittersweet movie in more than one way; I always enjoyed the scene where he reads the letter from HPL.

A really good movie.

Great film. Really enjoyed it.

Steve wrote:I recently watched The Whole Wide World, a movie about the romance between Robert E Howard and Novalyne Price. (Novalyne Price was partial inspiration for the Conan story Red Nails.) If you're not an REH fan, then it's probably not worth watching, but I found it fascinating.

I was curious how accurate it was, so I read the REH biography Blood & Thunder by Finn. The movie was surprisingly accurate. (It was certainly more faithful a movie than any of the Conan movies...) At some point, I'll probably track down a copy of Novalyne Price Ellis's book she wrote on her relationship with REH (she wrote it late in life, which was the basis for the movie, but she had journaled extensively while dating REH since she wanted to be a writer.)

REH was not a normal guy. Dude was strange and so was his family. Finn blames REH's parents, that they were too controlling, but I think the truth is, REH and his parents all had mental issues, and REH would never have been a normal guy.

He killed himself when he was 30. He had lived his entire life with his parents. Novalyne was the only girlfriend he ever had, and he didn't meet her until he was 28.

One story that caught my eye was the death of REH's dog. REH had a dog when he was a boy. The dog lived for 12 years. REH, at the age of 22, left town so he wouldn't have to be present during the dying days of his own dog. He kept calling every day until the dog died.

This is significant, because at age 30, REH killed himself upon learning that his mother would not recover from her coma. (She died the day after REH.) REH had contemplated suicide for years.

I can only wonder what if... REH had endured the death of his mother, or pursued Novalyne. It really was a shame and a waste.

Great post, and I agree with your main point: It really was a shame and a waste. I do, however, have a few points of disagreement. The first is with "...If you're not an REH fan, then it's probably not worth watching...". My wife is not a fan of genre fiction, but she thoroughly enjoyed this film. I think as a character study, even non-REH fans can find entertainment in what Whole Wide World has to offer. My second disagreement is with the notion that "...Finn blames REH's parents, that they were too controlling...", because I felt that Finn wrote a biography that largely presents the life, times, family, and relationships of REH, and he does it with clean objectivity, leaving all conclusions to be drawn by the reader. This is diametrically opposite to what the armchair psychologist, L. Sprague de Camp, presented in his biography decades earlier.

Dammit! Now I gotta watch the film. Should I finish Blood and Thunder before doing so?

Didn't know this movie existed. Going to have to watch

simrion wrote:Dammit! Now I gotta watch the film. Should I finish Blood and Thunder before doing so?

I don't think you have to finish Blood and Thunder before watching the film. In fact, the film will probably enhance your enjoyment of the biography, which is the finest one on REH, IMO.

Ghul wrote:This is diametrically opposite to what the armchair psychologist, L. Sprague de Camp, presented in his biography decades earlier.

Agreed. de Camp had an almost singular talent for completely misunderstanding other writers - even writers he supposedly admired, coupled with a similar penchant for drawing mistaken conclusions based on his misunderstanding that makes him rather unique in the field of genre criticism. One could either agree or disagree with de Camp but ultimately the feelings you come away with after reading one of his biographies is 'fuck that guy and the dickish psycholoanalysis he rode in on.' and 'I need a series of stiff drinks. And hopefully I'll forget all of it in the morning.'

Kellri wrote:
Agreed. de Camp had an almost singular talent for completely misunderstanding other writers - even writers he supposedly admired, coupled with a similar penchant for drawing mistaken conclusions based on his misunderstanding that makes him rather unique in the field of genre criticism. One could either agree or disagree with de Camp but ultimately the feelings you come away with after reading one of his biographies is 'fuck that guy and the dickish psycholoanalysis he rode in on.' and 'I need a series of stiff drinks. And hopefully I'll forget all of it in the morning.'

So I take it you do not recommend de Camp's bio of REH?

Simrion wrote:So I take it you do not recommend de Camp's bio of REH?

No. And his Lovecraft biography is even worse. About the nicest thing that can be said about de Camp's biographies - like Albert Goldman's, is that he died before he could write anymore.