Knights & Knaves Alehouse

In my games, most of the things that would be detailed in a character backstory - age, homeland, social class, birth order, and secondary skill(s) - are already determined randomly or quasi-randomly, so there's no need to make a story about them. I also use Knacks and Quirks (adapted from EGG's later games - Dangerous Journeys and Lejendary Adventure), some of which are inborn talents or weaknesses, but others are things that could imply a backstory - contacts/enemies, skills, phobias, etc. Players generally roll those off a table as well, but if they're inspired to make a little story to explain how they got their knack and quirk and/or why they decided to leave home and become an adventurer, I'm okay with that, as long as it runs no more than about 200 words, doesn't include prior "adventuring" activity (because a 1st level character with 0 XP is, definitionally, about to embark on their first significant adventure), and doesn't try to establish an already-in-progress story for the character (because, again, 1st level characters are by definition at the start, not the middle, of their story). Players need to remember that D&D games tell a particular type of story - ensemble-oriented, situation-based, mostly episodic - so it's incumbent upon them to make a character that works in that kind of environment.

My sense is that people who write significant backgrounds for their characters (anything beyond a sentence or two) are playing a different game. Most of my characters have died at low levels. Survival at low levels is dumb luck as much as anything else; just having subpar die rolls in a session can mean death, even if you are making sensible choices (and misjudgments about what is sensible abound). What's the point of writing up a paragraph or more about someone who statistically is likely to end up as a bloodstain on Level 1 of a dungeon? If you survive and more backstory becomes necessary or desirable, you can always gild the lily later.

DungeonMonkey wrote:My sense is that people who write significant backgrounds for their characters (anything beyond a sentence or two) are playing a different game. Most of my characters have died at low levels. Survival at low levels is dumb luck as much as anything else; just having subpar die rolls in a session can mean death, even if you are making sensible choices (and misjudgments about what is sensible abound). What's the point of writing up a paragraph or more about someone who statistically is likely to end up as a bloodstain on Level 1 of a dungeon? If you survive and more backstory becomes necessary or desirable, you can always gild the lily later.

They are playing a different game. It's called 5e (or 4e or 3e, or Pathfinder. Maybe even later 2e). They aren't interested in taking a few minutes to roll up a new PC and then diving in. They want some highly elaborate backstory and novel-like scripted adventures. Why? I don't know why but that hardly matters. They play their way and I'll play mine.

I love 1st person chatter but I don't like it if its going nowhere. I push hard to get out of talk as a DM but only when I feel its going South maybe 2 or 3 minutes on a plan maybe less than 1 minute for observations.

"Hahahhaha..heh..I like how you spontaneously cut out MAN for ORC to tell fantasy versions of all the dirty limericks, that you've memorized over the years, because spontaneously, there is a two-handed sword that is cutting into your chest.."

Seriously, I will have no caller if the players are DM material but otherwise its BTB speak when spoken to if its a group that isn't focused.

As for backgrounds, my backgrounds were usually succinct and had just enough "story" to make likable characters but in the 90's I was in some campaigns where DMs made outlines of how much back story they wanted from you and under that "your whole story in these world guidelines" mentality I had made some cringe characters.

Every time that I see one of my characters from those campaigns on a pile of all my characters I hear the old Sesame Street jingle,"One of these things is not like the other things..."

I think that mentality started with the 1987 character sheets trying to comply with the sketchiness of ORIENTAL ADVENTURE hardcover going mundane to push it out with all this "my clan" BS.

ghendar wrote:

DungeonMonkey wrote:My sense is that people who write significant backgrounds for their characters (anything beyond a sentence or two) are playing a different game. Most of my characters have died at low levels. Survival at low levels is dumb luck as much as anything else; just having subpar die rolls in a session can mean death, even if you are making sensible choices (and misjudgments about what is sensible abound). What's the point of writing up a paragraph or more about someone who statistically is likely to end up as a bloodstain on Level 1 of a dungeon? If you survive and more backstory becomes necessary or desirable, you can always gild the lily later.

They are playing a different game. It's called 5e (or 4e or 3e, or Pathfinder. Maybe even later 2e). They aren't interested in taking a few minutes to roll up a new PC and then diving in. They want some highly elaborate backstory and novel-like scripted adventures. Why? I don't know why but that hardly matters. They play their way and I'll play mine.

Yea, in depth backrounds are most often way too overboard. a paragraph or two should be all that's needed.

"Graxitiz was born in a dwarven citadel in the line of fire for centuries. Him and his three brothers all trained up as warriors, like their father before him, but due to Graxitiz's peity, was allowed to go priest-fighter..
Since they left their citadel, they've joined two different groups of adventurers."

Gita Jackson wrote:It became clear that she wasn’t actually into liberating the keep for the proletariat, but more into the idea of taking the keep and then killing anyone who came by and also taking their shit.

We used to lie to the nearby townsfolk about wanting to liberate dungeons...but it was really about taking it over and killing anyone who came by...and also taking their shit.

Gita Jackson wrote:In some situations there is no right choice, and you have to deal with the consequences.

Ahhh...the slogan for the Tomb of Horrors.

I think Gita's group should probably ditch D&D and play Mesner's "Competition & Cooperation".

MageInBlack wrote:I think Gita's group should probably ditch D&D and play Mesner's "Competition & Cooperation".

Thanks for that. Dr. Pepper out the nose on that one.

My tolerance for character backstories is limited to 'He came from Cimmeria, He was born on a battlefield.'

Kellri wrote:My tolerance for character backstories is limited to 'He came from Cimmeria, He was born on a battlefield.'

I agree but I still think everyone deserves a chance... until they open their mouth that is.

Seriously, I get what you are saying exactly. My feeling to prevent is full blast aesthetics (style guide) over character back story on behalf of the DM otherwise then you get the modern styles (in the case of the link clearly seen) easing in through the players.

My favorite back stories are the ones where a character did a bunch of kick-ass stuff before ever getting a single experience point.

I like to wrap up character creation about as quickly as humanly possible. Roll the six ability scores, pick race and class, roll starting money, and that’s it, the rest can get worked out as we go. Often my players don’t even have alignment or name figured out at the very beginning. Enter town and poke around for a while to figure out lodging, buy starting equipment, find the MU’s master to get his starting spellbook, listen to rumors and find adventure… it’s all part of play!

Falconer wrote:I like to wrap up character creation about as quickly as humanly possible. Roll the six ability scores, pick race and class, roll starting money, and that’s it, the rest can get worked out as we go. Often my players don’t even have alignment or name figured out at the very beginning. Enter town and poke around for a while to figure out lodging, buy starting equipment, find the MU’s master to get his starting spellbook, listen to rumors and find adventure… it’s all part of play!

I've seen some players who won't name their character till he survives to level 3..

garhkal wrote:

Falconer wrote:I like to wrap up character creation about as quickly as humanly possible. Roll the six ability scores, pick race and class, roll starting money, and that’s it, the rest can get worked out as we go. Often my players don’t even have alignment or name figured out at the very beginning. Enter town and poke around for a while to figure out lodging, buy starting equipment, find the MU’s master to get his starting spellbook, listen to rumors and find adventure… it’s all part of play!

I've seen some players who won't name their character till he survives to level 3..

Maybe that should be a rule. Naming is a rite of passage for the character and the player. Really though, it sets a proper expectation for new players on how to approach old school games versus The Chosen One games.

The Elf, the Thief, the Dwarf, and That Asshole should be good enough at game start.

TRP wrote:

garhkal wrote:

Falconer wrote:I like to wrap up character creation about as quickly as humanly possible. Roll the six ability scores, pick race and class, roll starting money, and that’s it, the rest can get worked out as we go. Often my players don’t even have alignment or name figured out at the very beginning. Enter town and poke around for a while to figure out lodging, buy starting equipment, find the MU’s master to get his starting spellbook, listen to rumors and find adventure… it’s all part of play!

I've seen some players who won't name their character till he survives to level 3..

Maybe that should be a rule. Naming is a rite of passage for the character and the player. Really though, it sets a proper expectation for new players on how to approach old school games versus The Chosen One games.

The Elf, the Thief, the Dwarf, and That Asshole should be good enough at game start.

Na// Stinky beard, pointy ears, pokey nose and butthead are good..